Tools - do we know what we get ?

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  arihato on Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:29 pm

I doubt very much that tools are being cast, it is so much more expensive to make the molds than having a steel punch that you can use over and over.
As a goldsmith I know how much work it is to make good molds.
Modern tools are stamped from sheet or band of steel, then forged in one go in a huge press.
It is more likely that the steel that is used is not of the best composition or not hardened and annealed at the right temperature, that caused the crystallization and subsequently the failure of the tool.

I buy my tools from a trader that I personally know, so I can get back with the tool if there is a failure.

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Jkd2572 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:39 am

My masakuni watering wand split open today. It was my favorite tool... The copper on the side just split open spraying water everywhere.  Mad

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:17 pm

Hey Jeremy,

is it repairable ?
Any coppersmiths around your area?

A coppersmith, made me one of those long nose watering cans, you see in the photos, and after it was made, I went back to my plastic watering can - chuckle.
So much for me copying the Japanese.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  MikeT307 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:19 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Well the $11.00 US concave pruner came three days ago, as expected total cost about $21.00US.
Total length about 8" [ 20.3 cm ]



I bought one of these locally and it broke pretty soon after purchasing it. The failure spot was about mid way in the concave part on one of the blades. Don't try to cut out deadwood with it unless it's a tiny twig or wood that's really soft.
I will not be buying these cheap ones anymore.

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If we are talking about a reasonable starter tool set

Post  LittleJoe on Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:31 pm

I got lucky and was offered a discount code on my second look at this tool set. I payed $158.00 (including shipping) for this kit. I was strongly considering them at full price though.

http://www.bonsaioutlet.com/tinyroots-ultimate-package-carbon-steel-tool-kit-trk-08/

I think it's a nice starter set for the price, but to be honest. I haven't used them much yet. Come on spring!

Joe

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Robert Steven on Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:59 pm

MikeT307 wrote:
Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Well the $11.00 US concave pruner came three days ago, as expected total cost about $21.00US.
Total length about 8" [ 20.3 cm ]



I bought one of these locally and it broke pretty soon after purchasing it. The failure spot was about mid way in the concave part on one of the blades. Don't try to cut out deadwood with it unless it's a tiny twig or wood that's really soft.
I will not be buying these cheap ones anymore.

This is the lowest quality tools made in China which is always called as "Yellow Label" tools, but being imported in huge quantity into USA and Europe, and some are repacked in own brand. And of course the price is very cheap as mass production without QC.

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:00 am

Yes, Sifu, and Mike,

but the book by Masakuni, which I left the title for in an earlier reply said, ----------- use for twigs.

I have other tools for other situations.

Doesn't matter how cheap, as long as the tool does what it was made for.
Like I said, let you know when and how it failed, if it fails.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Robert Steven on Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:48 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Yes, Sifu, and Mike,

but the book by Masakuni, which I left the title for in an earlier reply said, ----------- use for twigs.

I have other tools for other situations.

Doesn't matter how cheap, as long as the tool does what it was made for.
Like I said, let you know when and how it failed, if it fails.
Later.
Khaimraj

I mean the "brand", not the tools model...  Very Happy 

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:54 am



If you are going to use this type of tool on a real bonsai "aggressive way" like cutting tamarind twigs which is quite hard, in a regular basis your better of with regular household and garden scissors which is much cheaper.
But if you really are into regular bonsai activities and love the craft. I would suggests investing in a good tool is worth the money you will pay for.
I used to have this type of tools long time ago. My personal experience is not very satisfying for the cost I paid. and they were sold at a much higher cost than what Khaimraj paid for.

regards,
jun  Smile


They don't go to this process of tool quality testing.

















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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Robert Steven on Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:14 am

I visited this "Yellow Label" factory few years ago, here is their mass production process...and practically no QC...





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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:38 pm

L.L.B,

hee, hee, you have to remember what protects me. Working from seed/seedling or cutting with a drawing to guide. Small cuts, this is why my Masakuni is only a 6" concave, and some trees/shrubs respond badly to a concave, the wood smashes. You have to use a sharp scissors.

Essentially the complaint would still come down to trying to cut something the tool was not designed to cut.

It's rare I have to remove a large branch or root, and then I just break out the saw [ cuts on the back pull ] and make two cuts on either side, to prevent accidental bark ripping, before ciutting through, same for roots.
If I need to, I also have electric dremel and small wood chisels [ for dried deadwood ].

Lifting my 18" [ 46 cm ] Fukien tea in pot and stone type soil, reminded me why I don't have many 2 to 3' [ 61 to 92 cm ] trees, impossible to lift and I am getting older., and presently have no health complaints. let me keep it that way.
52 this year, and still able to mix concrete for casting.

As I always say - Bonsai is not an expensive hobby - but you can always make it so.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

* I can hardly wait until someone comes up with white zirconium fused blades for the Ginsu Bonsai look - Laughing 
What's it, a sucker born every day.

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:01 pm

LLB,

I Just borrowed your photo. and use it as an example of what tools to avoid hehe.    Evil or Very Mad  Some new comers might buy the same brand and get frustrated in the end. If one is doing clip and grow suited for tropical trees, it needs regular hard cutting and needs realiable tools.

Want to see my tool box? my gift to my self last Christmas... Laughing 

regards,
jun  Smile

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:31 pm

Hey L.L.B,

most interesting, and I wanted to send this to the group. Because many of my trees are in the 25 to 30 year bracket, I am seeing a large reduction in plants needing to be re-potted yearly. Shifting over to two and three year potting and these are the trees in the 15 cm long pot range.

I guess they must be feeling their age?

Yet they can hold their density in branchlet and leaves.

The only ones I have to repot yearly are still the very small, but most of those are under 25 years of age.

I gifted myself this year [ and my sister also sent ] with more books- yeah!!! - plus a new subscription to New Scientist!!!
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

* Interestingly, my nephew who is learning to paint Still Life, as I studied it in Lo Studio [ Studio C and D ] is now tackling hand to eye co-ordination,and I have had to give him a few of my leftover expensive lingua de gatti [ cat's tongue bristle brushes ] I long ago shifted to Eterna [ China ] -yellow label ?- bristle brushes.
Experience / knowledge makes a big difference.

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

Post  Guest on Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:29 pm

LLB,
 you just turn 57 y.o. hehe. that is still very young and should be in a mans prime stage. specially in a mans bonsai stage. The more you age I think the more you need to acquire good equipment for your bonsai and for your other activities.

Tools and other equipments sole purpose is to lighten up the work of men.So don't burden yourself with this yellow tools. (just a brotherly concern)...

leave the experimentation to the younger wisdom seekers (like me), Just buy yourself a good set of tools and enjoy life and bonsai.


regards,
jun  Smile

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Re: Tools - do we know what we get ?

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