Japanese white pine question

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Japanese white pine question

Post  Boshi on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:35 pm

Does a JWP grow well in equatorial climate or tropical rainforest climate?

Boshi
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  0soyoung on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:50 pm

No!

Try a Japanese Black pine instead.

0soyoung
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Boshi on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:53 pm

Thanks,,so how do i take care of my goyomatsu now that i've already bought it?

Boshi
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Twisted Trees on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:56 pm

Boshi wrote:Thanks,,so how do i take care of my goyomatsu now that i've already bought it?
You send it to me...of course!

Twisted Trees
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Boshi on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:05 pm

So it's going to be dead right?

Boshi
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  0soyoung on Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:29 pm

Boshi wrote:Thanks,,so how do i take care of my goyomatsu now that i've already bought it?

You might consider putting it in a refrigerator for a few months each year. I am unsure of the detailed needs of goyomatsu in this regard (research project for you), but temperate trees generally need about 6 weeks at temperatures below 40F (5C).

Otherwise, see if you can sell it back to whom you bought it, or swap with someone for a comparable tree better suited to your climate.

0soyoung
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  ChrisV on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:15 pm

Refrigerator is too dark It needs lot's of light during dormancy. Few weeks is also too short.
Without dormancy it will keep growing for maybe 2 years and starts to die because it used all it's reserves
Sorry you can't grow in your climate.

ChrisV
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Boshi on Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:24 pm

Many thanks,,i think i have to swap this with someone,,

Boshi
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Leo Schordje on Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:40 pm

Japanese white pine is from higher elevations in Japan. They grow all the way up to the tree line, where snow is deep in witer. It needs cold winter rest to survive.

For JWP the cooling requirement is more like 12 to 16 weeks at temperatures below 4 C. If the refrigerator is keep cold, more like 2 C, it really does not need light, it can get by on stored energy. But most household refrigerators do not keep accurate temperature control. Every time you open the refrigerator door the temperature inside jumps up to 10 or even 15 C from warm air getting in. It often takes hours to get back to the 2C. This will cause the tree to burn more energy in dormancy. It will also increase the length of time it needs to stay cool. So if you refrigerate it, it needs to be in a refrigerator that does not have its door opened very often.

If you can find a used commercial florist's cooler, they can be put to use. They often have light fixtures inside and glass doors that allow light in. You might be able to use one of those. Also check out used restaurant fixture for keeping food cold while on display. It might be possible to retro-fit one into a growing case.

Tropical pines would be better. Japanese Black Pine and Pinus radiata are both common and available. P. radiata is often used for tropical and subtropical forest plantations. It is a USA native, from coastal California, and does not need freezing weather in winter, radiata's chill requirement is minimal.

Hope that helps.

Leo Schordje
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Boshi on Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:03 pm

Thanks leo schordje,,this is really useful,,

Boshi
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Twisted Trees on Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:02 pm

ChrisV wrote:Refrigerator is too dark It needs lot's of light during dormancy.
Not too sure about that. I keep my pines in almost complete darkness 3 months out of the year with no ill effects.

Twisted Trees
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Leo Schordje on Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:02 pm

Twisted Trees wrote:
ChrisV wrote:Refrigerator is too dark It needs lot's of light during dormancy.
Not too sure about that.  I keep my pines in almost complete darkness 3 months out of the year with no ill effects.

In the USA, what I have seen, most pines, spruces, and firs, growing at high elevation, get buried by several feet (meters) of snow. Also eastern forests, particularly northern Wisconsin, Minnesota, snow belts of Michigan and Ohio, snow depth is often measured in feet. Once snow is deeper than an inch or two, any light that penetrates is too weak to be useful for photosynthesis. So even if the metabolism of the tree at those temperatures would have some photosynthesis, the snow depth means that all those trees you see in the mountains have been functionally getting by in darkness in winter. What we see in nature is proof positive that the trees will "get by" in total darkness at temperatures cold enough that snow is not melting.

Key thought is pines and other evergreens will "get by", it may not be optimal, but it is "good enough to be useful". I suppose ideal would be to winter trees at a temperature warm enough and bright enough where they could continue photosynthesis, but still cold enough that the chill requirement to start new growth is met, and light levels reduced enough that photosynthetic bleaching is does not reach winter sun scald levels. This goal is not practical for most of us. Storing are trees in the dark is much easier to do, and "good enough" winter care.

Evergreen trees, Pinus, Abies, Picea, and others have the advantage over deciduous in winter because they retained green foliage, they are ready to begin photosynthesis the first day the weather is warm enough and the light is bright enough. Deciduous trees have to make new leaves, which may take a week or two or more. The shorter the growing season, the more this becomes an advantage. At high elevation and in high latitudes, evergreens predominate.  

Pines, and the rest of the evergreens do store sugars in their sap, and live off this when in darkness, much the same way maples and other deciduous trees do. The exact amount varies between species, but they do store a fair amount. One clue is even in the name of some pines, such as Sugar Pine (Pinus lambertiana) which is used to make pine syrup, famously preferred by Muir to maple syrup. (Wikipedia was the source of Muir info) I have had syrup made from Eastern White Pine sap, P. strobus, it is quite sweet, the resinous flavors are mild enough to be quite pleasant, but not good enough for me to make it a regular condiment in my home. It is a once a decade treat. Hard to find too. I have heard of Spruce syrup also, for what it is worth.





In Colorado, snow

Leo Schordje
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  0soyoung on Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:03 pm

Leo Schordje wrote:
... 

Pines, and the rest of the evergreens do store sugars in their sap,

Fine bickering point: storage is as starches that are kept in living cells (parenchyma) throughout the tree. Warming in dormancy stimulates enzymes to convert starches back into sugars for metabolic activity, especially with repeated thaw/freeze cycles in spring (which is the time when sugars appear in the xylem).

0soyoung
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Todd Ellis on Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:17 pm

Thank you Leo and Osoyoung for this information!

Todd Ellis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  brett2013 on Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:35 pm

I just got my Japanese white pine, and I currently live in Singapore, very humid.

Will take up the challenge and enjoy it as long as it lasts, it reminds me of home, the pine smell, the needles ....  It's a very small shohin size, it's old and a been a bonsai for some time, and I don't think it gets buried in snow at the nursery which is not in the mountains

I also saw this article :

"In Japan a lot of the pines are produced in the south around Kyushu where the humidity and temperature is very high, so the growth rate is much faster. Due to these high temperatures the cold and frost does not occur, therefore they grow these pines in virtually pure grit and just feed heavily, but the main problem is when there imported into this country the grit holds a lot of water and intensifies the cold causing root rot, so it is advisable to put them into a warm soil mix such as sifted and graded double red line hard Akadama soil with some of the original Japanese grit. By using some of the existing grit you will get some of the Mycelium into the new soil mix."

JAPANESE WHITE PINE (Pinus Paviflora)



.

brett2013
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  limbobo84 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:24 am

Hi Brett,

I am a local Singaporean myself, and have recently commenced stratification for a bunch of white pine seeds in the fridge, just to see how well they germinate and adapt to tropical climates. Good luck with your quest and I truly hope your bonsai, by virtue of a miracle, thrives here!

-L.

limbobo84
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  brett2013 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:52 am

Thanks, so far so good.  Got some japanese black pines on the way to me too ... old ones of course (no patience to grow from seedling, I'd be gone before I see them as a bonsai  Sad ).

Good luck on your endeavor though ...

brett2013
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Japanese white pine question

Post  Sponsored content Today at 9:39 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum