Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Kakejiku on Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:58 pm

john jones wrote:
I went back and read this again.  Was this reply meant for me?   I originally thought it was, but now I see that you actually replied to Russell Coker.

Jonesくんへ
オマエの返事ちょっとわからないですね。日本語の盆栽単語に対する興味があるのは面白いですね。がんばってください。
ジョナサンより

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:23 pm

Really? Whatever made you think that?

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:50 pm

Russell Coker wrote:Really?  Whatever made you think that?

Because he replied to your reply.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:54 pm

Kakejiku wrote:
john jones wrote:
I went back and read this again.  Was this reply meant for me?   I originally thought it was, but now I see that you actually replied to Russell Coker.

Jonesくんへ
オマエの返事ちょっとわからないですね。日本語の盆栽単語に対する興味があるのは面白いですね。がんばってください。
ジョナサンより

Sorry,  I don't understand, Jonathan san.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:01 pm

No, he was illustrating my point.  Take another look, especially the last 3 paragraphs.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:06 pm

Russell Coker wrote:No, he was illustrating my point.  Take another look, especially the last 3 paragraphs.

I did.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:08 pm



And you think those were directed to me?

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:13 pm

Russell Coker wrote:

And you think those were directed to me?

It's not clear. That's why I asked. He was replying to your reply to me.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  JimLewis on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:13 pm

Come on, now.  This has been a (fairly) interesting thread.  Let's not let it degenerate into an "I said, he said, she said . . . WHO said?" debate.  When a quote is cited here with so many attributions as on the last page --

Kakejiku wrote:
   Russell Coker wrote:
       john jones wrote:

       I . . .

-- it does become difficult to say to whom it was directed


Last edited by JimLewis on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:17 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:15 pm



Well it looks pretty obvious to me. Good luck transliterating the nuances of Kanji!

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:24 pm

JimLewis wrote:Come on, now.  This has been a (fairly) interesting thread.  Let's not let it degenerate into an "I said, he said, she said . . . WHO said?" debate.  When a quote is cited here with so many attributions as on the last page --

Kakejiku wrote:
   Russell Coker wrote:
       john jones wrote:

       I . . .

-- it does become difficult to say to whom it was directed

I agree. All in the world I did was ask a question or two.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:27 pm

And all I did was try to clarify what I took from what Jonathan wrote...  
 
 
Good Luck!  
 
over and out...

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  john jones on Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:14 am

Russell Coker wrote:And all I did was try to clarify what I took from what Jonathan wrote...  
 
 
Good Luck!  
 
over and out...

I'm glad we all got that settled.

Are you willing to help me translate some common bonsai terms into kanji?

'No' is a perfectly acceptable answer.

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:57 pm

I'll be happy to help... but I doubt I can really be much help.  I'm about 25 years removed from this being a factor in my life.  All I can offer is to give you a breakdown of the meanings of individual Kanji. The difficulties start when you begin combining them. Meanings and even the way the word is spoken changes when that starts happening.  Factor into that the complexities of bonsai and you end up with a real problem.  That's what I was trying to convey in my original comments, why I suggested you hook up with a native speaker who understands bonsai.....  and what (I think) Jonathan (Kakejiku) was pointing out to you with his breakdown of "chokkan", or as we say in English "formal upright". Kanji aren't words as much as they are ideas, if that makes any sense, with endless combinations and meanings.
 
(You REALLY need to read back through that post)
 
I'll give you 2 examples that come to mind that happened to me.  Where I spent my time in Japan was the epicenter of satsuki bonsai in Japan.  All of the satsuki on display had plaques identifying the variety for the guests to read from a distance.  I could hear them reading off the names as they moved through the display. But there was this one bonsai that people always had to ask what the name was (gumpo - a folk of phoenix) because the average Japanese wasn't familiar with the group of Kanji that made up the name - even older people.  On another occasion I was at the Satsuki Festival looking around with some bonsai friends who were not "satsuki people".  I saw one that I didn't recognize by the flower and asked the friends to read the name to me.  Guess what, none of them could, and these guys weren't kids but men in their 30s and 40s!  I had to find a satsuki person to tell me the name of the variety! (komane) Yes, these two cases are extreme in that they deal with very old, named varieties of azaleas - but it's a tough nut to crack regardless.
 
I am in no means trying to discourage you. I'm simply trying to point out what I see as the difficulties you have waiting for you and how to minimize them.  But as it's been pointed out here by others, most of the work has probably already been done if you know where to look.
 
R

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Re: Bonsai Terms Translated/Transliterated

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