Source of photograph?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:30 pm

Someone made photographs at the recent Penjing Convention in China. This I found in the background hanging on a wall with other old looking photographs. To me it seems to be a Japanese white pine group a few decades ago, possibly in the 1970ies. My own JWP-group is pissibly the same bonsai after decades of styling. Does someone know where this old photograph can be found? Some old Japanese magazines, exhibit books, possibly KokufuTen books could be the source.



Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:35 pm



I would think if were from a Kokufu-ten book you'd know it!

What do you know about its history? It could be from a show book or an auction catalog. I have a bunch of both that I brought back from Japan and I'll look through them and see if I can find anything.

R

Russell Coker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  John Quinn on Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:50 pm

Good luck getting info. I tried two reverse image searches and found nothing on the web...only 3.8 billion images were searched, however. Cool 

_________________
"Eschew obfuscation"

John Quinn
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:23 am

When I acquired the group I was told that it had been at Kokufu Ten. But then afterwards nobody could find it in any catalog. Maybe they did not search far enough back, or maybe they were fooled by the different pot and overall appearance.
Anyway, I know where the small photograph is from. it is from an image that someone shot at the Chinese Penjing Convention. He shot a penjng and behind that tree on the side there were a few old looking large photographs. And there I found the tree and enlarged the picture. To find the photographer of the penjing does not help me at all. I could easily find him. He certainly has no clue about the origins of his accidental background. The question is where does the image that was hanging on the wall come from.

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:41 am

I found the penjing photograph here in Juan Antrade's site: penjing in China

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  fiona on Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:51 am

The person who created the display/owner of the penjing must know where the photo came from surely.


btw that link is currently showing as "content unavailable"

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:09 am

fiona wrote:The person who created the display/owner of the penjing must know where the photo came from surely.


btw that link is currently showing as "content unavailable"
Fiona, one can only see it as a member of Facebook.


Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  fiona on Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:52 pm

Who created the display in the picture? Can you enlarge the pic so you can see the label?

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:06 pm

Sorry Fiona, this is the largest view that is available.

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:32 pm

Walter Pall wrote:When I acquired the group I was told that it had been at Kokufu Ten. But then afterwards nobody could find it in any catalog. Maybe they did not search far enough back, or maybe they were fooled by the different pot and overall appearance.
Anyway, I know where the small photograph is from. it is from an image that someone shot at the Chinese Penjing Convention. He shot a penjng and behind that tree on the side there were a few old looking large photographs. And there I found the tree and enlarged the picture. To find the photographer of the penjing does not help me at all. I could easily find him. He certainly has no clue about the origins of his accidental background. The question is where does the image that was hanging on the wall come from.

Yeah, I got all of that the first time. What I was wondering was how and when it left Japan and came to you.

I looked though five or six old catalogs last night, and have about that many more to check. These may not be old enough, although some are black and white. That's why I asking for a timeline here.

Russell Coker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Russel, it is in Europe only since two years.

2012 spring, this when the group arrived in Europe. it was acquired from an old master who, claimed that the tree had been at KokufuTen. but apparently he did not know more details.


2013, July, when I got the group


Two days later


A week later trying this pot


better with the slab, this is the final one now



And now the exiting question is whether this was that group in the seventies.


Last edited by Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:58 pm



Oh wow! I assumed it had been in Europe much longer. My books are from the mid-eighties and back. It's a longshot, but I'll keep looking!

Russell Coker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:50 pm

Here the name tag.


Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:34 pm

Hi Walter,
This may or may not help, but there is a very similar bonsai in Yoshio Takayanagi's book Masterpieces of Bonsai, on page 23. The photo shows the bonsai moving right to left, the opposite of your tree's current front, but it looks very similar. The book I have is the third printing: June 1989. The original copyright is 1986 by Shufunotomo Co., Ltd.

Todd

A couple of photos:




Todd Ellis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:10 pm

Very interesting Todd. It would not be the first time a photograph was flipped horizontally in a book or magazine. While this group appears so traditional to most it brakes a major rule: it consists of EIGHT trees. I assume that this would be a rare coincidence that the image from the seventies , the image from the eighties and the image in 2012 all show a group with EIGHT trees and the main trees have very similar motions and proportions and not be the same group.  I have flipped the image (again?) and put it up for all to guess whether this is the same group.
So now what is the consensus?





Last edited by Walter Pall on Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:26 am; edited 1 time in total

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:46 pm

It looks like it could be the same tree to me, too. I was struck by the eight trees when I saw the photo.

Todd Ellis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Guest on Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:59 am

I think It is not the same group.

The first image got seven trunks. the One Walter got Eight. And the one tree that is missing is one of the main ( thick trunk) tree , the fourth one on from the left side.
The fact that the original Photo came from Kokufuten makes it logical to have seven trunks not eight. and would be impossible to grow another trunk Specially a main tree..


regards,
Jun Smile 

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:14 am

Hi June,
I count eight trees in all of the photos of this Pine. I have also seen many photos of Kokufu trees which "break many rules" and are nonetheless breathtaking Very Happy 

Todd Ellis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:04 am

I thought about the flipping and remember well the good old days when high quality photographs were made with slides. A slide is easily turned around. The quality on print is exactly the same then from the other side. The picture is only flipped horizontally. I remember that this happened once in a while in some magazines with my trees and made me angry. So this could either be on purpose or more probably by accident.

i count eight trunks clearly on all three.
Btw, I am absolutely against the strict rule of uneven numbers for groups. This only makes sens e for inexperienced bonsaiists. An artist would know that it is not the number that is important, but the symmetry that even numbers can produce. If the trunks are very much different in shape and dimensions the uneven number does not matter. This group her is a good example for that. While we were led to believe that this rule is written in stone I was present when a very important Japanese master applauded once seeing a successful group of four in a tree critique.

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:06 pm


Just wanted to let you know that I didn't find anything. But then that was a long shot anyway!



Russell Coker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Walter Pall on Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:02 am

Thanks Russel anyway.

Walter Pall
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Source of photograph?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 4:21 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum