Reverse Taper concern?

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Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Ryan on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:39 pm

Hey all,


Just a quick question on some branches. Would you all say that there is a possibility of reverse taper forming at this point?


It's a Willow Leaf Ficus, and here is a full picture:

Ryan
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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:04 pm

No.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Ryan on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:13 pm

JimLewis wrote:No.
If you say so. I was just unsure if those two branches on the sides were close enough to cause some swelling there.

Ryan
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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Jkd2572 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:08 pm

Look at trees in your yard. They all start to get bigger where the main branches start coming out.

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  arihato on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:09 am

Most likely the opposite.

Edit: sorry old age struck again. I need to be more precise.

Will there be a swelling at the junction, is that what you're asking? Yes it will eventually become thicker because there are several branches at the same point. This is one of the reasons we remove spoke branches in Pines.

If you look at pictures of old Zelkova broom style Bonsai, you see it is inevitable.

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Ryan on Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:07 am

arihato wrote:Most likely the opposite.

Edit: sorry old age struck again. I need to be more precise.

Will there be a swelling at the junction, is that what you're asking? Yes it will eventually become thicker because there are several branches at the same point. This is one of the reasons we remove spoke branches in Pines.

If you look at pictures of old Zelkova broom style Bonsai, you see it is inevitable.
Yes, I'm wondering if there will be swelling there and whether or not a branch or two needs to be removed. Hmmmm Neutral 

Ryan
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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  arihato on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:43 am

That depends on whether you have the courage to restyle the tree radically. Removing one of those branches will create a large hole................affraid 

Or you could take the 'lazy man's' option and accept that that will eventually happen, as it is style inherent.

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  JimLewis on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:38 pm

I'll stick with "no."

You seem to be working on a broom or spreading style tree. The swelling when the lower branches begin won't be "reverse taper" and would be unavoidable, anyway. Branches don't just suddenlt jut out of a trunk, especially in a spreading style.

The term "reverse taper" applies more to a trunk that is narrower below and above a fat spot and not because there's a branch or two there. Besides, in 99% of cases too much is made of the phenomenon.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Ryan on Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:32 pm

arihato wrote:That depends on whether you have the courage to restyle the tree radically. Removing one of those branches will create a large hole................affraid 

Or you could take the 'lazy man's' option and accept that that will eventually happen, as it is style inherent.
I don't think I'm willing to do that, as those branches make up the majority of the canopy. Plus, nothing wrong with the lazy mans way Laughing 


JimLewis wrote:I'll stick with "no."  

You seem to be working on a broom or spreading style tree.  The swelling when the lower branches begin won't be "reverse taper" and would be unavoidable, anyway.  Branches don't just suddenlt jut out of a trunk, especially in a spreading style.  

The term "reverse taper" applies more to a trunk that is narrower below and above a fat spot and not because there's a branch or two there.  Besides, in 99% of cases too much is made of the phenomenon.
Thanks Jim. I'm wondering if that's just part of my problem, that I overthink and overfear reverse taper. It couldn't get that bad.

Ryan
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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:48 pm

i think you are confusing (and worrying about) reverse taper when what actually happens in many 'decidous tree' styles is a natural flare in the trunk where the branches diverge - this is not a trunk fault and actually is essential for the tree to be naturally convincing. - i rate your tree as natural and convincing not faulty in any way

reverse taper as a trunk fault occurs mostly where the base is thinner than the rising trunk section. Bulbous nodes where many branches leave one spot is a common fault in pines and often needs some carving to lessen the swelling - but again this is not reverse taper as it appears as a ball of wood on what may be a perfectly tapered trunk.

tree faults will often leap out at you in seconds and you will always spot them before the good bits too, so no need to go hunting for problems that are not there.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Reverse Taper concern?

Post  Ryan on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:51 pm

marcus watts wrote:i think you are confusing (and worrying about) reverse taper when what actually happens in many 'decidous tree' styles is a natural flare in the trunk where the branches diverge -  this is not a trunk fault and actually is essential for the tree to be naturally convincing. - i rate your tree as natural and convincing not faulty in any way

reverse taper as a trunk fault occurs mostly where the base is thinner than the rising trunk section. Bulbous nodes where many branches leave one spot is a common fault in pines and often needs some carving to lessen the swelling - but again this is not reverse taper as it appears as a ball of wood on what may be a perfectly tapered trunk.

tree faults will often leap out at you in seconds and you will always spot them before the good bits too, so no need to go hunting for problems that are not there.

cheers Marcus

Excellent Marcus! Thank you for the explanation!

Hopefully I'll be able to get the base on this one rather thick. This is a leaf culture Willow Leaf Ficus, and it's been said that these develop bases faster than the norm, so we'll see.

Ryan
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