old ulmus nire

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old ulmus nire

Post  abcd on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:13 am

Photographie of my very old ulmus , collected by air layering 7 years ago, the trunk is twisted et completely hollow , bark with squares of "chocolate" , pot by john PITT

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:55 am

Hi abcd

This is a very nice bonsai..very eatable...how old do you think the plant was before airlayering? pot and stand is nice with the tree

Kind regards Yvonne

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old ulmus nire

Post  abcd on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:33 pm

Hi, very difficult to answer, we can't count the dark circles because the trunk is a tube !!!!!!!
In bonsai, it's not important , age it's seems is important

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Old Ulmus

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:02 pm

Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie or shrimp scampi. What species is it?
Sometimes the age of a yamadori is estimated by counting the rings on a nearby tree about the same size.
Iris

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very old ulmus

Post  abcd on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:20 pm

ULMUS CAMPESTRIS
In France we use NIRE ( i understand that's a mistake ) for ulmus with a bark with squares chocolat .

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Floris on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:41 pm

This is very nice, really like that old bark!

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:49 pm

Hi check this reply out...Given from Darky on page 3

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t9762p30-5-ulmus-nire-cuttings-facing-5th-growingseason?highlight=ulmus+nire

May be interesting to read.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  arihato on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:18 am

What a gorgeous bark on a lovely tree. thumbs up 

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:17 am

Beautiful tree! Incredible bark! Lovely pot and stand. My postal address is .... Very Happy 

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  AlainK on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:42 am

A remarkable styling on this old Ulmus glabra.

Though not a 'Nire-keyaki' (Laughing), a really beautiful tree. Cool 

Félicitations !

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:27 am

I dont think it is a glabra,,,We have theese trees in the nature, and I never saw this kind of bark, they are always smooth...It does look more like a Ulmus carpinifolia to me...maybe a Minor.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  AlainK on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:05 pm

Apparently, Ulmus minor is not a valid term :

SITI: Ulmus minor

It should be Ulmus procera

Ulmus carpinifolia is listed as a "non accepted" synonym of Ulmus procera.

Ulmus glabra (the Wych elm) can have shaggy ridges on the bark on older specimens, but on second thought, it's more probably an "English elm".

But if it is an "English elm", it's Ulmus procera Wink

The evolving taxonomy on elms seems to be a source of a lot of confusion Laughing

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  LSBonsai on Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:50 pm

Excellent tree, well done!

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  augustine on Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:46 pm

Tres Bon!

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  marcus watts on Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:55 pm

bonsaisr wrote:Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie
Iris
sorry Iris but within our bonsai culture nire is perfectly valid to describe the chinese elm variety that has smaller darker leaves than normal and very textured bark - it is used both at nurseries & on import lists to differentiate between the normal smother barked chinese elm and this variety - you can't pigeon hole every tree into a specific named latin species when the japanese or chinese have just selected a tree within a named genus because it has interesting characteristics and propagated from it to make nice bonsai. i feel too many people these days are desperate to classify and name plants when they should just be observing species variants and treating them as a bonus if they make good bonsai.

you'd probably hate it that there is no variety name or latin classification in existance for two of my best japanese imported collected junipers - they don't go in for it preferring instead to use a trained eye and just call them juniper -the japanese nurseryman where they were sourced called them coastal juniper as they came from sea cliffs ! but in the USA a coastal juniper is a very different tree all together.

great elm by the way, very very nice

cheers marcus

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  tiennavi on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:01 am

nice and beautifull tree!
thank for sharing!

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OLD NIRE ULMUS IN SPRING 2015

Post  abcd on Sun May 03, 2015 9:29 am

The main problem is to retain the beauty of the dead wood.
a protection is needed when it rains.
I use also a resin-based product for treatment of worm-eaten wood
some wood glue to pick up the broken pieces
but despite my efforts, in recent years, the dead wood will be gone, bonsai is never finished

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  davidlpf on Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:19 pm

Awesome elm, thanks for sharing

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  cswink on Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:49 am

This an amazing and beautiful tree. Have you tried a natural penetrating oil such as linseed or saflower oil to preserve the dead wood? Deciduous trees that have dead wood seem to rot very fast. I believe this is due to the amount of moisture deciduous trees require as oppsed to coniferous types. That being said. A penetrating oil of natural derivation will keep the dead wood from drying out as well as protect it from the elements. It will need to be applied several times throughout the year but I feel this will work. Parafin wax could be a great wood conditioner as well. I used to stain cedar decks in the US in nasty rural zones that got a lot of lime dust, torrential down poures, and extreme humidity. We always used a penetrating parafin based oil preservative on the cedar and have seen results that have lasted 15 years or better with regular scheduled treatments. I have an ulmus that I can not seem to identify. In my area it should be classified as an American Elm, or Ulmus Thomasii. But the bark is not characteristic of even the oldest elms in my area. Given. I collected it from an abandoned rock quarry. It was growing out of a shale dune.

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Bruce Winter on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:46 am

marcus watts wrote:
bonsaisr wrote:Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie
Iris
sorry Iris but within our bonsai culture nire is perfectly valid to describe the chinese elm variety that has smaller darker leaves than normal and very textured bark - it is used both at nurseries & on import lists to differentiate between the normal smother barked chinese elm and this variety - you can't pigeon hole every tree into a specific named latin species when the japanese or chinese have just selected a tree within a named genus because it has interesting characteristics and propagated from it to make nice bonsai. i feel too many people these days are desperate to classify and name plants when they should just be observing species variants and treating them as a bonus if they make good bonsai.

you'd probably hate it that there is no variety name or latin classification in existance for two of my best japanese imported collected junipers - they don't go in for it preferring instead to use a trained eye and just call them juniper -the japanese nurseryman where they were sourced called them coastal juniper as they came from sea cliffs ! but in the USA a coastal juniper is a very different tree all together.

great elm by the way, very very nice


cheers marcus


Hear hear! Well spoken!

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Re: old ulmus nire

Post  Vlad on Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:11 pm

@ abcd   I do love chocolate.   The age of the trunk in contrast with the mass of fresh green foliage.  Brave decision with the air layer.  Well done.

@ Marcus   Taxonomy makes sense.  We can challenge it, we can even have some valid doubts about it, but thats all we can do.   It is here to stay for the good of all of us/ our trees in the pots

My mother used to call me a sweetheart.  My wife calls me " hey you", for my kids I am " an old man", for many others just "f... b..."  But for the tax office I am the payer Vladimír Tous, ID .....  

From this perspective I am quite happy if the bonsai keepers/dealers call a specific variety of Ulmus parviflora  a Nire. Or if in France the Ulmus Nire means a brest with chocolate bark. If they like it why not. Or?


Frankly and sadly it would be just great if we could spend our times on such "discussions"  .  Unfortunately we have entered into the war zone.  

FRANCE. WE ARE WITH YOU.


Last edited by Vlad on Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misspelling)

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Re: old ulmus nire

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