stone from Slovakia

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 pm

Yvon-Japanese yoseki it is suitable for all kinds of stones and how many are wrong Chris-down the crooked stone,thick horizontal dai,unpolished,without sand,natural, Rolling Eyes

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  trantanhung_nt on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:50 am

Hello Mr . Peter Brod ,
The skill as DAIZA Peter Brod was an experience and I was studying in the stone as hard as stone above ( for DAIZA practice ) . Many thanks Mr . Peter Brod .
Best regards ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:56 am

God morning Peterbrod and Trantanhung

Thank you for information Smile......... I like the stone much better from this side.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:56 pm

Hi Yvonne... You note:
Patina is also shaping of a stone in the nature.....

Really OLD SUISEKI-patina is found on a JAPANESE SUISEKI, and it is being made through many years of rubbing, and just being a suiseki for many many years.....
Patina is not created during the shaping of a stone. A stone is shaped and afterward the patina (stone aging) begins. You can reduce patina after it begins but patina (development of skin that attracts moisture for a suiseki) begins on a raw stone surface, even if that surface is stained.

The rubbing that occurs for proper aging is dry rubbing (rubbing with a clean, dry cloth). It is not bare-hand rubbing (or rubbing with hand cream) which at least adds oil, salt, some urea (a humectant) and debris in addition to evaporating water. While handrubbing or additional additives other than water offer temporary depth of color, they require additional additives repeated time and time, again. Many disagree... but think about it. Argue what is achieved. Talk stone practice & results.

Can you imagine that old stones receiving repeated oiling followed by drying & need for re-oiling-- again-and-again over many years? Such stones would severely suffer in translucence, whereas properly aged stones get better with age. Do you imagine suiseki as glazed chemically & in perpetuity by acid washing? If so, we can discuss it. Watering/weathering works for CLEANING (it is great solvent) & allows a skin to form which attracts moisture for stones suitable for water aging. Rubbing with a dry cloth works for stones which are not suitable for water aging & for maintenance.

Some stones (notably limestone formed in karst formations and limestone formed through action by acid from leaf debris) require cleaning of clay before aging begins. I have some experience with Chinese Lingbi, Japanese Furuya, Italian Ligurian and Vancouver Island (BC, Canada) limestone on which clay adheres. Peter's look similar to the limestone in karst formations-- typical of Lingbi & Vancouver Island limestone which are suitable for stones in Chinese scholar rock, shangshi or viewing stone style. Peter acid washes his shiny black stones with bright white inclusions. It is fine for appreciation other than suiseki appreciation. I have Chinese stones (Lingbi in-style) and Vancouver Island stones that have been acid-dipped. Norma asks about clay-encased limestone, and there are good places to find answers-- especially on IBC. Norma has participated in one of the best threads.


Last edited by Chris Cochrane on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:05 pm

Hi Norma... Welcome back on IBC & especially on the Stone Forum. I know you'll see old friends and find new ones. You have been missed. You asked about patina on Chinese Lingbi stones and for Japanese Furuya stones, which are found with clay adhesion.

Regarding Lingbi stone practice, I could not do better than our friend Jack Wong from Ningbo, China. You participated in the "Chinese Lingbi Stone Photos & Cultural Introduction" thread in late summer 2009. Jack's thread is exceptionally informative on preparation of these stones.

Let's start, there. Jack is not discussing preparation of stones for appreciation in Japanese suiseki-style.

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:55 pm

Hi Peter... It is a stone of nice material. Without a clearly visible line between its plateau or slope and the rising hill/mountain on the horizon, is it worth collecting as a doha ("slope"/plateau) stone? Are you thinking of cutting it to create a thin daiza which holds the stone along its entire length? If it had a clearer separation of the peak, I'd look at the stone with the plateau at the horizontal position as an option. If that looked the best choice, I would consider a short (in length), relatively thin (in height) daiza closely grasping the right underside of the stone, only; I would avoid cutting the stone.

Landscape view with short, red daiza. Perhaps, this one is a little too thin & short. It expresses an edge of possible fitting...

(note: the blue line represents the horizontal lower edge of the stone across most of its width & shows why a daiza would be unreasonably deep if rising on the uncut stone to this level.)

A reasonable choice has arguably been made-- the design illustrated in your last photo, though I cannot attest to its fit or finish. A "sloping" foreground ending in a peak is also a slope; doha when sloping often slope from the front with a steady rise toward the back, so this one would be uncommon unless the stone leaned more to the front; I can imagine the lean, but it would cause problems of undercutting across the stone's visible frontside. I agree with you, Peter, on first considering options of placing the flat area horizontal.

I resist cutting stones-- especially landscape view suiseki. I would consider cutting a stone in landscape view if it was very evocative and of rare contour only likely achieved in a cut stone. Even then, I would be reticent.

The Kamuikotan-ishi plateau stone that I illustrated above has a daiza that is arguably too deep in height. Depth was required to accommodate a very uneven & probably natural bottom. The daiza carver could have done better in some details, but the stone fits its socket very well. Stones of most natural feeling are typically not perfect representatives of a contour style. Still, the standards for choosing stones help decide the 'good/better/best' distinctions. After that, you must trust your feeling, which varies with individuals' experience.

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  trantanhung_nt on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:00 am

Hello Mr. CHRIS COCHRANE ,
Your suggestions on how implement a DAIZA for this stone ... as noted by You , is very great , but also is very difficult for us ( if not impossible ) . However , I still have to wait for the reply of Mr. Peter Brod ... ???
Thank you because I ' ve been learning more from You .
Best regards .
Hưng - Trần .

trantanhung_nt
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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:45 am

suiseki stone is to support, not air, not buy, I'm doing it yourself, the theory without practice leads to erroneous conclusions, for the rare uncut form, found in the river, together with Ing. Bart-Schefé ESA to assess the work of others without their own publication if my life did not work, deep knowledge of the procedures for replacing yoseki is suspected, the arts will always be differences of opinion, wants to tolerance

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  trantanhung_nt on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:20 pm

Hello Mr. Peter Brod ,
I ' ve understood your article :
_ I agree with you is here : Make Daiza best by having to give WOOD DAIZA climb to exposed stone , not the other way ...
_ However , there is a little unsatisfied when we view and enjoy the work ! ( Photo 2 )
Many thanks to your sincere replies .
Best regards ,
( Photo 2 : Landscape - Stone : " a little unsatisfied ... " )

Hưng - Trần .


Last edited by trantanhung_nt on Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:19 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: stone from Slovakia

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