stone from Slovakia

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Tue May 17, 2011 8:15 am

Beatifull quiet stones Smile

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  vlado on Tue May 17, 2011 7:50 pm

...for information,the owner and daiza maker of these stones is mr. Formel from Slovakia - very skillful guy.
best regards
vlado

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:31 pm

sunny

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:15 pm

sunny

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:16 pm

stone shine without chemicals sunny

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:50 am

Hi Peter... This stone is OBVIOUSLY processed. If not by acid, I wonder the technique. A stone removed from a river, the sea or the ground does not obtain a shiny surface gloss (distinctly different than the translucence of a natural stone) by gentle washing, dusting or natural weathering. I would guess the stone has been acid-dipped. You insist (in advance of anyone questioning, otherwise) that it is not acid dipped. I take your message as a challenge and gladly accept it.

FWIW, similar stones are collected and processed in many areas of the world. For stone enthusiasts, similar processed stones recognized as Ying-tak, Lingbi & Vancouver Island limestone are well known examples. These stones are not exposed to weather after processing if the jet-black surface is to be maintained. Time alone causes them to slowly turn back to lighter colors. I have a Vancouver Island limestone acid dipped in my presence by seasoned collector Anton Nijhuis; it totally returned to light color after looking like your black stones. I've had many Ying tak stones return to light color from black after being exposed to weathering in pots. I have shiny black Lingbi stones with white inclusions that appears acid-dipped. After 15 years, one of my processed Lingbi stones has very modest mottling where the jet-black shiny surface is turning dark gray. I wonder how it will continue changing. I see commercial stone sealants intended for exterior as well as interior application. Some have warranties up to 12 years (others only 8 years or even 5 years), and some are made exclusively for limestone. Perhaps, these sealants are your method to create shiny black stones. Any stone with a surface that repels water & is shiny black without a deep translucence is unsuitable as suiseki. They neither look natural nor hold water closely to their surfaces-- both these qualities are required for suiseki.

Many suiseki enthusiast are not avid collectors of stones with cut bottoms. No suiseki collector should be collect stones with surfaces that are obviously processed-- whether oiled, waxed, acid-dipped or hard-polished. The great majority of stones you post are unsuitable for suiseki appreciation.

Your repeated denials or unintelligible responses of these being processed is tiresome. You are marvelous skilled as a daiza-carver. Beyond advice on daiza, why should anyone trust you? When questioned about apparently failings, you repeatedly fail to make sense in English. Otherwise, you are understood clearly.

Do you still insist these are gathered in a natural state, washed (not polished), and only treated with gentle watering or dusting (except for bottom-cutting)?


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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:51 am

cleaning stone and achieve gloss is the difference, without chemical surface coating is meant stone polishes based wax (car, furniture, flooring, tombstones ...), my suiseki saw 12,000 people here, nobody knows your, your efforts disparage my work is tiring, but tolerates it, because in Japan where you learn all the features of an objective assessment of photographs,you described yoseki tests and their results for the limestone are wrong and only shows that the stones which are not in Japan Japanese classical treatment does not work,unsuitable for suiseki are some stones, but their cleaning practices traditional Japanese procedure for most limestones by external influences water, sun, frost surface is unclean, but undermines it is therefore necessary to adapt the stone and not mindlessly copy from the Internet sense, or what issue Suiseki is nottechnique to achieve a gloss surface without chemicals you can not show, because my comments are incomprehensible for you

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:08 pm

Hi Peter... Will you share the surface treatment or not? Posting the shiny-surfaced stones without willingness to discuss their surface treatment insults open discussion.

Your shiny black stones appear to have an artificial surface typical of acid-sealed limestone. Yesterday, you appeared to deny acid-sealing when noting:
stone shine without chemicals

Today, you avoid the question of acid-sealing by changing the original statement noting:
without chemical surface coating is meant stone polishes based wax (car, furniture, flooring, tombstones ...)
You avoid the truth. You have illustrated a leather attachment for a rotating tool & denied using it to enhance these surfaces. You have recommended an acid treatment solution that cleans and seals limestone... but have noted that your stones were only "wet with water" when asked about acid-dipping. The stones posted repeatedly are not wet with water.

If you believe in acid treatment for cleaning and finishing suiseki, you can defend it. If you use other techniques, you can defend them. Truth will free you from hiding truth repeatedly.

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:30 pm

Hey Chris, you share the work of their hands, hence their suiseki or hide behind the criticism of others and consider what is or is not suiseki depending on whether you know slash rock or clean it, the sharing procedure requires a partner who is 15 years he watered limestone, it can be for other at-any type of stone has different properties and that it is necessary to adapt all the stone does not, I am an admirer of the Japanese expression, but you can not mindlessly repeat all the procedures for stone from your country because they have other features such as stone and Japanese tolerate, if not so declared them unfit suiseki instead of seeking other procedures, do not be discouraged from any stone that is dear to you (free online translator)

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:45 pm

scratch Is Peterbrod on trial here?.....He does not need to admit or confess anythingthing to anyone.

I enjoy looking at Peterbrods stones, and also stones from Nguyen Thai Ly, who also resently recived a reply from Chris......

Are people not allowed to show the stones found in their countries?, and stones they just like, cut or uncut, what could be the problem ?....

Or is this page only about japanese uncut suiseki....

Maybe we should call this page " Viuvingstones of the World", This would take the heavy burdon off Chris' shoulders, and let others enjoy members of IBS' suisekis.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:10 pm

Hi Yvonne... If a discussion group is not about learning, what is the point? There are ways to age stone surfaces that promote natural expression and ways to make stones look gorgeous but hinder suiseki appreciation. Peter should know the difference and appreciate it.

Most stone enthusiast would consider acid treatment more permanent and less reversible than oiling or waxing. It is important for enthusiasts to treat viewing stones so they will not be ruined for eternity. Peter's uniformly shiny stones are artificial in appearance. This gorgeous appearance will not last, as opposed to dry aging practice which is appropriate for limestone suiseki. It is not a secret. Care of stones requires understanding in order for stones finds from all of us to not be ruined. Enthusiast hoping to build collections through personal exploration or purchase need to assess options. Our forum should reveal best practices as well as practices that ruin potentially good stones.



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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:14 am

To Chris

It is up to the member of IBC, to do with a stone, what he/she likes....and nobody needs to share anything.

Just like it is, in the bonsaipages. There you dont find a self-appointed upperjudge.

If you dont like a members stones, could you writhe an artickel about the subject in generel, this would be teaching....Also would it give members the possibilty to ask you questions, learn and share. As you know many things.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  qseki on Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:50 am

Hi all,

In Spain, we use a sentence ('what are you bringing, brother?, the monk says') to denote a person that it is interested in receiving, but not in offering/sharing. I know people that follows their personal approach to stones, but without participating in forums, magazines, ... and even in exhibitions. No problem, it is their option.
But it is to be supposed that when we participate in a forum like this, posting photos of our stones and displays, expressing oppinions and so on, this is indicative of a sincere desire for sharing oppinions and knowledge, giving and receiving comments and criticisms, in a brotherhood spirit.
When looking at Peter's stones, I immediately got the sensation that most of them has been treated with acid. And I know because I also use acid in some rare occassions (i.e., as a resource not as a method),and I perceive that acid is not strange to Japanese stone collectors. But this is not the post to discuss about it.
As Chris, I have a sincere interest in getting a new knowledge every day. Today, it is to know what kind of finishing Peter uses in his stones.
As a modest compensation, let me express my personal oppinion (excuses for the redundance) that shiny stones very offen distract, more than atract, attention and tend to look unnatural.
But, of course, Peter is free to keep his secrets undisclosed; but it should be fine that, if this is the case, he be clear about it.
And this is only a hobby or, at maximum, an art, not a discussion about how to solve the problems of this presently crazy world.
Friendly regards,

qseki
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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  trantanhung_nt on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:54 am

Hello IBC Forum ,
Hi all ,
It' s hard to end this problem the best way .
One Vietnamese played a rock SUISEKI - Japanese he guide for me as follows :
_ Need to handle ( traiter ) the surface of the stone ... before putting it SUISEKI - EXHIBITION , but also need to know to treat the surface of the stone properly ( correctement ) ( If the surface treatment of the stone is not the right way , you can destroy it ( detruire ) , for sure )
I think this is a very important factor in playing rock ... that those with more knowledge and experience on this issue ( que ceux qui ont plus de connaissances et d' experiences sur cette question ) ... They communicate goodwill to others unknown ( Il communique de bonne volonte' a' d' autres personnes inconnues ) .
Many thanks to Mr . CHRIS , Mr . PETERBROD , Ms . Yvonne , Mr . QSEKI , mentioned and discussed this issue .
Best Regards ,
Hưng - Trần .

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:58 am

It could be interesting if Peterbrod would teach us, how he does the surfacetreatments he is using.
It could be useful Smile

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  thientrakieu on Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:04 am

Hi IBC members.
I completely agree with qseki's opinion : "But it is to be supposed that when we participate in a forum like this, posting photos of our stones and displays, expressing oppinions and so on, this is indicative of a sincere desire for sharing oppinions and knowledge, giving and receiving comments and criticisms, in a brotherhood spirit." We should receive all opinions with humble although we like or dislike them. We can keep our opinions if we think they're right and ready to repair our faults. It's important we have to be sincere, receiving all opinions merrily not resently.

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:26 pm

I described the stone as a shiny no chemistry because I did not use any polishing prostriedky.Po use wax-based polishes each stone to accept in terms vodu.Takto suiseki poškodený.O discussion began cleaning Chris.Jeho yoseki limestone is smiech.Vápenec is partially soluble in water and thus the patina on it not as the dostaviť.Podobne ligurákoch a careful mechanical očista.Skús fine Dremel kotúčiky.Na photos are from the same stone náleziska.Podobný nedosiahol.Taká shine like the nature

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Guest on Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:50 pm

Hi Peterbrod

Many thanks for the teaching Smile ......But I find it very hard to understand the translation Sad .

kind regards Yvonne

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:30 pm

Hi ,www.frengly.com

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  ShohinDude on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:32 pm

Chris,

I have been away for a long time from Suiseki and Bonsai.
Still, I have tried to learn something about Suiseki in the past.

Do I get it right that your beef here is with the surface treatments of the stones, not their origin or shape (perhaps some mis-categorised stones here...)?

If yes, I'd need to agree with you on that.

Still, the daiza carving skills seen in this thread are nothing short of fantastic.
Also, I think there are some very nice stones shown here.

I'd love to see some of these in their natural state.

Our stones are very boring..."rounded grey granite" pretty much sums it up. Rolling Eyes

Cheers,
M


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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:17 pm

Very Happy

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  trantanhung_nt on Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:59 am

Hi Mr . PETERBROD ,
Oh ! Yoyeux looking - Stone !
Look on the surface of your stone , I see this as a flower garden ( many white flowers !!! )
Can you please tell me about the material of the white flower ... material CaCO3 , or silic , or ... ???
Thank you very much .
Best Regards ,
Huwng - Traanf .

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  sunip on Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:55 am

Hi Peter Brod,
Thank you for showing.
The stone reminds me of air bubbles rising in the water,
the shape of the stone gets therefor a stronger expanding feel.
Nice detail the lower part of the stone has a hollow and the upper part a bulb shape,
this gives the stone also some up going movement.
All of this brings me the power of spring in mind.
Regards, Sunip Wink

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  peterbrod on Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:26 am

Stone is from Turkey, I do not know the material, shows me the stars in the sky, thanks

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Re: stone from Slovakia

Post  Chris Cochrane on Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:18 pm

Very nice stone, Peter. It would engage any viewer, & I like both the "bubbles" & "stars" readings.

In Japan, there are two varieties of " 'plum blossom' pattern stones" baika-seki. One has a variety of white patterns on a black matrix similar to this, but with stars & circles along with other geometric patterns representing the blossoms.

The other baika-seki pattern is recognized with semi-transparent, white disks usually seen on a grey or black matrix with a brown branch or trunk pattern crossing at an angle with sharp turns to branches. The semi-transparent, imperfectly rounded disk on the Japanese stone are flush to the stone's surface

In Virginia, there are stones with a raised yellow-to-orange dots on a caramel colored matrix which Potomac Viewing Stone Group calls "firefly pattern." I wish they occurred on a stone with a black matrix.

If Peter crafts a daiza for this stone, it will be elevated considerably in appreciation.

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Re: stone from Slovakia

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