"tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

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"tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  rrubberbandman on Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:14 pm

I recently had an explosion of these neat looking, mimosa resembling seedlings pop up in a area where i had spread pine bark chips.

resembles a rain tree kinda...
Bryan

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  JimLewis on Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:41 pm

There are a score or more small, woody weeds that look like that. Probably not bonsai material.

Moving to questions.

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Tree ID

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:56 pm

So you are assuming the seeds came with the pine bark. The most likely candidate, if it turns out to be a tree, is Albizia julibrissin. It is used for bonsai. Let some of them grow & see what happens. They might be fun to practice on as a little forest planting.
Iris

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  AlainK on Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:25 pm

Albizzia is a good candidate, the seeds germinate easily. I grew some from pods I collected in a park, but they didn't survive the first winter. They must be protected from the frosts when young, but maybe the winters are mild enough where you live.

A cultivars named 'Albizia julibrissin 'Summer Chocolate' has been very popular here in the past few years. I offered one to my sister who lives on the Atlantic coast, they have almost no frosts there, but the top died, and new shoots appeared at the base in July only.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  rrubberbandman on Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:31 pm

ahhhhh i see.....maybe a tiny pot candidate.
Thanks all!
Bryan

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:32 pm

Does the leaves fold when you touch them?
If it folds/closes when you touch the leaves, it would be a mimosa pudica




What ever the material you have, be it a Mimosa or a Albizzia,
Even if its not a classical bonsai material, you could give it a try.
It might not last more than a couple of years, maybe 5 to 10 years, but you could get something out of it for some years.

It might not become a full fledge bonsai, but it could be good enough for you while it can last.

Mimosa Sensitiva / Mimosa Pudica Bonsai by Xtolord, on Flickr


Last edited by Xavier de Lapeyre on Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : minor correction)

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  rrubberbandman on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Xavier de Lapeyre wrote:Does the leaves fold when you touch them?
If it folds/closes when you touch the leaves, it would be a mimosa pudica




What ever the material you have, be it a Mimosa or a Albizzia,
Even if its not a classical bonsai material, you could give it a try.
It might not last more than a couple of years, maybe 5 to 10 years, but you could get something out of it for some years.

I might not become a full fledge bonsai, but it could be good enough for you while it can last.

Mimosa Sensitiva / Mimosa Pudica Bonsai by Xtolord, on Flickr
SWEEET looking....they close at dark i am sure but have not did the touch test.....this is going to be a nice project!
Bryan

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Andre Beaurain on Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:31 am

Dear Bryan.

The plant that came up in your garden is one of the 10 weirdest plants on the planet.  ( That's why had to have it in our Collection, and I struggle to keep it alive...too dry in summer.)
It is the plant that responds the quickest to touch in the world!   It is believed, to hush away insects and to  look unappetizing to grazers.   

 Mimosa pudica [/size] .  " 'Herb' touch -me- not"   .

It is actually an rambler creeper, that spreads very very rapidly. In sertain countries it is banned, like Australia where it spreads quickly.

 You are going to struggle to get a thick supporting stem, it also has a thorn at each petiole.

It comes from your side of the World!, Sentral America, and I think Virginia is one of its natural habitats.   Yes it is...just googled it.  So be very carefull it will spread like wildfire.

So, you have a native weed that came up in your garden, that you want to Bonsai!....      r...i...g...h...t..Shocked Shocked

Its a joke.....Laughing Laughing Laughing 

Please keep us updated on your venture.  

Love and light

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:33 am

Xavier,

if you were to ground grow that mimosa, you could get a 2.5 to 5 cm trunk, and then really push it. Would take less than a year. Yes, Andre', we tried making bonsai out of them [ there is quite a range down here.Lol ] very elegant. No images though.Apologies.
Best of growing.
Khaimraj

*Got your e-mail Xavier, just had nothing interesting to say.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  AlainK on Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:50 am

I still think it's more likely to be Albizzia: I doubt there are many Mimosa pudica around where you live, and pines don't grow in the same clilmate. So if they grew from bark pine, it must be a species that can grow under the same climate conditions Wink

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Andre Beaurain on Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Alain No no no...this wasn't a question.

... if this is an Albizia that closes it leaves on touch, then I will eat my hat.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:24 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Xavier,

if you were to ground grow that mimosa, you could get a 2.5 to 5 cm trunk, and then really push it. Would take less than a year. Yes, Andre', we tried making bonsai out of them [ there is quite a range down here.Lol ] very elegant. No images though.Apologies.
Best of growing.
Khaimraj

*Got your e-mail Xavier, just had nothing interesting to say.
LLB...

1 to 2inches trunk? they are like "grass" or weeds. I have never seen one reached an inch in trunk diameter.
...also known as the sleeping grass. it is a very invasive species, I just cut yesterday some old ones in a farm, but they keep on coming back.

regards,
jun:) 

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  rrubberbandman on Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:40 pm

interesting different takes on this specie......here in Eastern USA we do have the mimosa specie that has pinkish reddish blooms.....they are more or less a edge or understory tree here.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:49 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Xavier,

if you were to ground grow that mimosa, you could get a 2.5 to 5 cm trunk, and then really push it. Would take less than a year. Yes, Andre', we tried making bonsai out of them [ there is quite a range down here.Lol ] very elegant. No images though.Apologies.
Best of growing.
Khaimraj

*Got your e-mail Xavier, just had nothing interesting to say.
Laughing  Khaimraj, I just love you posts!! Nearly choked with laughter on that last part about the email Smile
The plant is kind of a pest here.
Even those in the wild stays thin but with leggy ramifications. Never saw one with a trunk thick enough to be worth yamadoring [ Just made the word up ]

I'll give full ground a try next weekend and see how it fares.
But like Andre already pointed out, its a major pest once its gets started. Beautiful and fun, but a pest non the less.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:10 pm

Xavier, L.L.B,

it is native to down here and there are several mimosa types, not all - shut their door.

If I get the chance, I will get another, but that will be next year.

Hey, I just learnt how to get a large trunk on Sida acuta, but the largest plant didn't take the transfer, will be working on that next year as well.
I am transferring a good deal of Japanese know how to our local woody weeds.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  AlainK on Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:14 pm

Andre Beaurain wrote:Alain  No no no...this wasn't a question.  

... if this is an Albizia that closes it leaves on touch, then I will eat my hat.  
Laughing 

I was referring to the original message by "rrubberbandman": he never said the leaves closed when you touched them tongue 

I've grown "Mimosa pudica" from seeds for my kids when they were small. One or two of them even flowered, and they do have beautiful flowers.

But since "rrubberbandman" didn't tell us if the leaves react when he touches them, you seem to have taken for granted they do: maybe they don't, but that doesn't mean what you said about Mim. pud. is wrong pirat 

I'm not sure that it is an invasive plant in Virginia, which is where "rrubberbandman" lives, but I can tell you that in the South of France, round the Meditarrenean see where the climate is very mild, "Acacia dealbata", which we call here "Mimosa", is an invasive plant. It was introduced from Australia in 1867, and it's now a real problem.

So to me, considering the climate in the area where "rrubberbandman" lives, and which is not tropical or sub-tropical if I'm not wrong, plenty other species are much more likely to be what has sprouted from a bag of pine bark - and I repeat: pines and Mimosa pudica usually don't grow in the same environment. "Mimosa"  and "Albizzia" do, so that's why I came to this conclusion Wink Virginia USDA zones range from 6a to 8a. %Mimosa pudica's hardiness zone is USDA Zone 11 (above 4.5° C) : even if the pine bark came from another part of the US, pines seldom grow in zone 11.

Ah mais! Cool 

See what I mean?

EDIT: I've just checked : Zone 7a Stafford

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  rrubberbandman on Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:12 am

AlainK wrote:
Andre Beaurain wrote:Alain  No no no...this wasn't a question.  

... if this is an Albizia that closes it leaves on touch, then I will eat my hat.  
Laughing 

I was referring to the original message by "rrubberbandman": he never said the leaves closed when you touched them tongue 

I've grown "Mimosa pudica" from seeds for my kids when they were small. One or two of them even flowered, and they do have beautiful flowers.

But since "rrubberbandman" didn't tell us if the leaves react when he touches them, you seem to have taken for granted they do: maybe they don't, but that doesn't mean what you said about Mim. pud. is wrong pirat 

I'm not sure that it is an invasive plant in Virginia, which is where "rrubberbandman" lives, but I can tell you that in the South of France, round the Meditarrenean see where the climate is very mild, "Acacia dealbata", which we call here "Mimosa", is an invasive plant. It was introduced from Australia in 1867, and it's now a real problem.

So to me, considering the climate in the area where "rrubberbandman" lives, and which is not tropical or sub-tropical if I'm not wrong, plenty other species are much more likely to be what has sprouted from a bag of pine bark - and I repeat: pines and Mimosa pudica usually don't grow in the same environment. "Mimosa"  and "Albizzia" do, so that's why I came to this conclusion Wink Virginia USDA zones range from 6a to 8a. %Mimosa pudica's hardiness zone is USDA Zone 11 (above 4.5° C) : even if the pine bark came from another part of the US, pines seldom grow in zone 11.

Ah mais! Cool 

See what I mean?

EDIT: I've just checked : Zone 7a Stafford
Now i am confused ....we do have mimosa trees here that grow wild on the sides of roads and people have even made them a front yard specimen....which my dad did and was near 30 foot at its highest point and it attracted various birds especially orioles, to the flowers.
I just went and touched the leaves and they did not shut but they do shut at night.
Bryan

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:52 am

rrubberbandman,
Mimosa is a genus of about 400 species of herbs and shrubs.
In those 400 species, Mimosa pudica is the only one that folds its leaves from external stimulus to my knowledge. You have other species like Mimosa pigra that looks like Mimosa pudica, but do not share the folding leaves particularity.


The name "Mimosa" has also been applied to several other related species with similar pinnate or bipinnate leaves, but are now classified in other genera, most commonly to Albizia julibrissin (silk tree) and Acacia dealbata (wattle).

Mimosa can be distinguished from the large related genera, Acacia and Albizia, since its flowers have 10 or fewer stamens. Note that, botanically, what appears to be a single globular flower is actually a cluster of many individual ones.

[ Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimosa ]

What you have might be another species of mimosa [shrub like one] that don't fold its leaves.
In my neighborhood I've seen the creeping mimosa prudica one, and also another mimosa looking shrub/tree that's 2m heigh.

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  coh on Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:24 am

The "mimosa" trees that grow wild in Virginia are almost certainly Albizia julibrissin. I've got a couple of small ones growing up here (right at the edge of their range). The leaves fold up at night but not when touched.

They have large compound leaves...I don't know if the leaves reduce much in bonsai culture. Bill V. had a couple of nice specimens for a while (photos can be found in older issues of International Bonsai, maybe elsewhere on the web - found one at Albizia bonsai, scroll down to near the bottom of the page). The flowers are beautiful and fragrant.

I'm going to try to tame one or two of the small specimens I've got. Will let you know how that goes in 5 or 10 years!

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:32 am

Been reading some random articles from my rss feed and found a Nemu no ki or Albizia/Mimosa here : http://saruyama-bonsai.blogspot.com/2013/08/and-so-it-continued.html
Can you find it Smile
Looks like at least someone gave it a try in Japan.

Some other resources [ mixed Albizia / mimosa ]

http://www.parlonsbonsai.com/Albizia-julibrissin.html


http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-466135450-hermoso-bonsai-de-acacia-de-constantinopla-caretutopia-_JM

http://www.bonsai-creation.com/fiche-bonsai-albizia-172.php

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

Post  Andre Beaurain on Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:40 am

Alain..you are soo right, he never said that.  But I could see.........flutter eyelashes 

It is still a Mimosa though.  The photo of the tree  that Xavier just posted is a Albizia, Mimosa will never, ever get such a thick trunk,  Mimosa pudica that is..

We also have a Mimosa in Africa..but it has HUGE leaves.  And it doesn't respond to touch.

Love and Light

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Re: "tree i.d." may not be a tree at all....

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