Need some quick help on a Cedar

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  ChrisV on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:06 pm

sure hope this one survives although I give it a small chance atm.
Trees like this should be prepared for the transfer to a pot over a periode of time.
say 2/3 years.
Happens a lot with older yamadori too.
I think the timing and because it's going to be done in one session the tree will have a huge struggle.
With dividing work over the years it can get a bigger more solid rootball when it's collected.
Junipers need their foliage and roots to be balanced so digging it out now in one session will leave you with stunning material but a weak and a tree that cannot support his foliage with the little roots it has.

One more thing I think the prices called out here are a bit off the chart. But it's worth alot that's for sure and even more when it's worked by a pro and survived it all.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:57 pm

The tree has now been covered with a frame covered with landscape cloth (the side away from the field has been left open, but can easily be covered if needed) Its in the shade now and out of the wind (because of the frame), gets misted often, and I know its early, but so far so good. Will keep you posted on its progress. Thanks

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Barry M on Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:38 am

This is a great thread - post of the year in my opinion. Best of luck with the tree.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  leatherback on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:26 am

Best of luck. Keep us posted if (when!?) it pushes masses of fresh green growth! bounce 

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Apache2010 on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Absolutely amazing material. Hope it all works out for you.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Gary Swiech on Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:19 pm

I sure hope it lives. That's the first step. You'll know pretty quick. Don't be discouraged if it starts to turn brown in areas.
Then follow Marcus' advice. He certainly knows how to work on scale junipers.

Gary Swiech
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Gary Swiech on Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:54 pm

Is it still alive?

Just wondering if the foliage is starting to dry out.

Did you cut back some of the foliage at all?

Gary Swiech
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:52 am

Gary,
I was advised (by several, some from IBC) not to cut back the foliage at all. I was going to give an update on the 4th of Sept. which would be 1 month from when I collected it.
I'm glad people are interested in its well being, give me a few days, and I'll put something right here.
Thanks,

tbarkley
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Gary Swiech on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:40 pm

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the update.

The reason I ask is that I've done some urban yamadori myself over the years, and worked in the Nursery business for 35 yrs., and usually with junipers I've found that the foliage that is unable to uptake water from the roots usually turns dry and then dies. I was wondering if that was taking place with your spectacular find!

I'd like to see it live. Usually a little tip pruning cuts the auxin supply to the terminals and thus the laterals start producing more auxin within a couple of weeks and start growing on collected junipers.

One of the positives you have going for you is that you dug and planted with little time in between and the roots didn't dry out.

Again, I'm looking forward to the update.


Last edited by Gary Swiech on Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammer)

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Juniper one month update

Post  tbarkley on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:04 am

Well, its been one month since I collected this juniper, and its been a nerve racking month! I appreciate all the interest in this tree. Thankfully, there has been very little die off. Just a few small pieces so far, and lots of new growth to take its place. Many of the crotches have new starts. I'm including several pictures. Now, I just let it grow more roots and let it rest for a couple of years.









Any comments would be appreciated, any thoughts on what I should do next would be greatly appreciated.
Any ideas on when I should start feeding it? So far, I've just been misting it several times a day. I just watered it for the first time the other day.
Its been getting all of its water from the misting and what little rain we've had for the last month
I will continue to keep ya'll posted of any changes.
Thanks for all your help!!!

tbarkley
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Juniper one month update

Post  tbarkley on Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:08 am

The first couple of pictures in the update look a little yellow....its around 6:00pm the sun is getting low and is giving it a yellow tint. The tree is not yellow as you can tell by some of the new growth pics.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:36 pm



That's a real beauty, I wish you luck. I've found old garden junipers like that before - I have my eye on 3 right now - but I've never gotten one out of the ground successfully...yet.

R

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Gary Swiech on Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:48 pm

It does look yellow and stiff.

You'll want to look for new juvenile growth like in the second to the last picture.

Any crispy foliage? Good luck.

Gary Swiech
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:30 pm

Gary,
There are several places with foliage like that. I thought it was reverting to a different type of foliage. The foliage looks like a dwarf Japanese garden juniper.

tbarkley
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juniper update

Post  tbarkley on Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:08 pm

I had several people concerned about the yellow tint yesterday. As I had said, it was getting late in the day, the sun was coming through some clouds....just not good lighting. I took this pic at 2:30pm today (9/4/2013). You will notice a big change in the color. Before anybody thinks it, no the photo was not edited, no settings were changed on the camera. Its just better light today, mostly sunny, and not as late.

tbarkley
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  David D on Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:05 am

I have read lots of good advice about keeping this gem alive. I have had limited success with any find that was not deciduous and no success with unplanned "salvage" trees in the summer. I was wondering you could outline the steps you took?

David D
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:08 am

David D wrote:I have read lots of good advice about keeping this gem alive. I have had limited success with any find that was not deciduous and no success with unplanned "salvage" trees in the summer. I was wondering you could outline the steps you took?  
David,
I did nothing special, really. I'm a newbe to Bonsai. I collected this not very far from my house. It was out of the ground for only 30-45 minutes at the most. I put it in very sandy soil that had been worked about a week before (there was a lot of Rose of Sharon and Lilac there that I removed). There were not many roots at all on the Juniper (and I mean VERY FEW). People were saying it needed to be in a box and stabilized, so about a week later, I dug it back up carefully to put it in a box of DEarth (from NAPA). I think it was item #8822. I saw that there were a few more roots than I remembered, not many mind you. So I put about a 3 inch layer of DEarth all around the hole (sides and bottom) and put the tree back in immediately. It was staked down so it wouldn't move, and I've been misting it heavy (foliage and trunk) SEVERAL times EVERY day (unless its raining, which hasn't done often this month). I keep it covered all the time. I started out using landscaper's cloth then went to 60% shade cloth (by advice from people on this site). August here can be quite hot and sunny here. I wish I could tell you there was something special I did, but I didn't. I haven't been watering it, just misting it. What water it gets, drips off the tree when misting. Its in good draining soil. Like I said, that little area was full of Rose of Sharon and lilac. So the soil really got worked over when I pulled/dug all of the roots out. I already have Rose of Sharon and Lilac popping up all over the same area. I kept a few of the stumps to try to "Bonsai" them. Like I said, I did nothing special.
I wish you the best with all of your attempts.
Thanks for the interest.

tbarkley
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:12 am

David,
I also put pine bark mulch (about 2 inches thick) around the tree. Forgot to tell you that.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  LSBonsai on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:55 am

I'm glad to see the tree is not dead. But please recognize that you are not out of the woods yet. I wouldn't put my guard down until it starts sending out strong shoots several inches long, maybe by late spring 2014.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  MichaelJ on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:02 am

I like the approach you took. I have had good experiences putting yamadori and garden material in diatomite from NAPA. I've lost one in pumice, but never any in diatomite. Even when I had to take the material at a bad time.

MichaelJ
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:38 am

MichaelJ wrote:I like the approach you took. I have had good experiences putting yamadori and garden material in diatomite from NAPA. I've lost one in pumice, but never any in diatomite. Even when I had to take the material at a bad time.
Michael,
Thanks for the words of hope. I will continue the same process for as long as needed.

tbarkley
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:25 pm

I find this very strange..

In my opinion when digging up a tree from the ground, one HAS to reduce the foliage with at least one third. (This is what I do with all trans plantings, in Landscaping and Bonsai)

If you dig a plant up, you damage the roots, so you have to reduce the foliage, otherwise the foliage will release the moisture and the roots cannot keep up. (Capillary action)

Always make sure to plant it in the ground the way it was... in other words, mark North on the plant, and plant it so its in the same position. The foliage on the North and Southern side of the canopy willl be slightly different. Here in the South the leaves on the South side will be bigger as on the North side, in the North this is reversed. So for a plant ripped out of the ground and replanted again in the same position will let the plant stress less. Think of the leaves as sun panels that are adjusted towards the sun.

Digging it up again to put it in a pot.....Mad Mad  Dont do that again, you stressed the plant now Twice!! Putting it back in the ground WAS an excellent idea. (Dont move it again for at least two years...)

Get some Super thrive! Why doens't anyone mention this? Super thrive is an Excellent tonic for transplanted plants, and believe me it Works!!

Every one talks about the cost of your stunning tree, and very few really helps. Talking about the cost is like putting the name of a horse on the stable door.... its a bad omen. And put too much stress on this fantasitc plant.

Meditate with the tree and send it some love...even just speak the word love to it over and over for a while EVERY DAY. They feel it, and know it.

Love and light
Andre





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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:17 pm

OK Andre, everything was going good until you got to the part about meditating with the tree and saying love to it over and over. I don't meditate, and I don't talk about love to it. If it works for you, great, go for it.

Some people have mentioned SuperThrive and others say don't use anything. I didn't mark north on the tree, I don't know if its in the same orientation as it was or not. If I really think about it, being not far from where I got it, it just so happens to be close to the was it was. I remember the position of the tree when I dug it, and like I said, I don't live very far from there ( a couple of miles).

Don't worry, I'm not getting a shovel near it for a couple of years.

What do others think about using SuperThrive, or even Miracle Grow (20-20-20), or anything else every couple of weeks?


tbarkley
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 06, 2013 4:29 pm

Everyone: Before we debate superthrive again, search for old posts -- please?

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:59 pm

tbarkley wrote:OK Andre, everything was going good until you got to the part about meditating with the tree and saying love to it over and over. I don't meditate, and I don't talk about love to it. If it works for you, great, go for it.

S

tbarkley

I'm not a person who runs in the hills with long hair smoking dope and love everyone.  

I Know plants, this is my job.  I have done many strange and incredible tests on plants, While and after studying,    and believe me when I tell you that the world is much more interesting than you think.  Hell water responds to sound...common!

Talking words to plants, or playing music has an effect on them.  All over the world and especially Japan has done numerous tests on plants.  All with the outcome that plants can respond to energy. Touch and sound.  ( Classical versus Rock and so on..)  

But hey you are not the person to discuss this with, in fact most people are ignorant of nature and doesn't understand it ad all.  And they never will. Mostly due to religion.

This is your tree and your gamble.  I'm only trying to help.  If it was mine I would do everything to make it live....


 Super thrive is the only thing I use when pruning roots hard, or transplanting plants form nature or gardens, in landscaping and bonsai.  I have saved many trees and shrubs and rare succulents  this way.  I can only speak of experience.

Love and light

Andre Beaurain
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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

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