Need some quick help on a Cedar

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Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:30 am

I picked up this cedar today. The guy I got from said that he had lived in the house for 29 years and it was there when he moved in. I've been looking at it for a while and stopped the other day and asked about it. I dug it up my self. From the time I got it out of the ground until I planted it at my house was 30-45 min. It didn't have very many roots on it, I mean only a few, fine ones at that. I dug a hole, filled it with water, planted it a couple of inches deeper than it was, then watered the top of the soil and cedar. What can I do to make sure this survives. It has a wild looking trunk, I just want to make sure it lives. How can I promote root groth, quickly?
Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!


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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:33 am

I hope this guy makes it. That is killer material.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  LSBonsai on Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:36 am

Oh.

My.

God.

Shocked

I'm sorry but I'm trying to wrap my head around this. This is a juniper, and must be the most incredible landscape juniper I've ever seen.

You don't sound confident about the process. Very few roots are not good. Especially in the middle of the summer. All I can say is get some shadecloth over the thing, mist it as often as you can, and pray that you didn't kill this absolutely incredible piece of material because your will probably never find another one like it.

And next time you go for something like this, please do the tree a favour, take your time, and get some advice.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Auballagh on Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:04 am

Whoa....
That is some seriously killer material.
But unfortunately, I've got to go with LSBonsai on this and say - the prognosis definitely AIN'T GOOD. Crying or Very sad 
- There is no way a juniper from North Carolina should be anywhere but safely in the ground - or in its pot - this time of the year.
- A few roots?  Not good.  This thing should have had an 'el Monstro root ball dug up with it to have a chance of surviving this transplant.
-
Here's what I recommend, and even then it may only give this awesome tree a 20% chance to live,
- You need a mister that connects to a garden hose.  You may be able to find one at Lowes or Home Depot.  If not?  Go online and see what you can get.
- I hope you placed this tree in 100% pure Turface or possibly 100% pure Haydite?  You can sift Permatil to remove the large chunks and use it, if that's the only thing you can get.
- DON'T cut off any more foliage than this tree has possibly already lost.  With a juniper that has lost most it's root mass, that is the only thing that may keep this tree alive, at this point.
- If you have a green house to place this tree in?  Not bad.  If not, place it out of the wind and direct sunlight.  You want a protected, bright spot to keep the tree in while it (hopefully) recovers.
- During the day, if it's not raining - keep that mister on and keep the foliage wet.  At night, shut it down.
-
That tree would have made a really powerful Bonsai.  Collecting it properly, at the right time of year would have definitely made it all possible.  At this point?
You can only hope and do your best to keep it alive.  Good luck.  Neutral

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Killer material....

Post  tbarkley on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:11 am

I was very, very careful in getting this out of the ground......the owner was getting ready to rip it out of the ground and toss it. It was at the end of his driveway and about 2.5 feet from a paved road. He had recently broken a few branches off. He's going to add more gravel at the end of his drive. The soil I have it in is pretty sandy, good drainage, gets a few hours of sun, and a lot of shade. Believe me, I really want this to make it. I love the looks of it. I'm new to the hobby, but have loved Bonsai forever. When I dug it up, I dug about a foot from the trunk all aroud it. I didn't cut any large roots, there were not any. I kept looking for them, but never saw them. I don't know how the thing was growing. I'm going to keep it moist and mulched and hope and pray. Like I said, it was out of the ground for only 30-45 min before I put it back into wet, wet soil. And then hosed it back down within a couple of hours. If this makes it, I'll post pics again. I thought it was a Juniper, the owner said it was a Cedar, the wood (underground) has the coloring of a cedar. I didn't smell it, I was just wanting to get it in the ground. As far as it being the right time of the year, the right time was NOW, before it was trash.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Bonsaiteen on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:15 am

With all the others advice I would use rooting promoters too

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:40 am

I hope it makes it this was worth thousands of $$$$$$ as prebonsai material. For most people this would be the most remarkable tree they could ever hope to own.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:52 am

Another thing to do is remove all of the berries as they are sucking energy from the tree. They are not needed and this will help. As such a large tree this will take awhile but I would do it as soon as you read this. They are easily plucked off. I do this on all of my junipers. It allows for the energy of the tree to focus on what it needs not reproduction. With that being said the fact it has berries means she is a lady.......... If she makes it she will be a queen.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  JimLewis on Mon Aug 05, 2013 12:33 pm

I hope you didn't plant it too much deeper than it had been growing. That's the major reson homeowner yard trees don't survive. People plant them too deep and the roots cannot get the oxygen they need.

I would not use any root hormone. I would use some good compost, however, and spread it 2-3 inches deep around the base (but NOT touching the trunk!) to about 2 feet around the plant. Keep that moist.

Come winter -- the real test for survival -- keep it completely protected from those winter winds we get. You might spray it with an anti dessicant product, though I don't know how well those work with juniper.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tmmason10 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:20 pm

Good lord I hope it lives. I'm speechless and trying to figure out how this was even possible in a landscape setting.

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Killer Juniper

Post  tbarkley on Mon Aug 05, 2013 8:28 pm

Well, it took 2 hours and 15 min non stop, but all of the berries have been picked (with very, very little greenery loss) I hope this helps. I left the chair beside of it so you can get some idea of the size. Jim, I only went about 2 inches deeper to give it a solid foundation. I'll keep you guys posted. You can see the box of berries in the chair (I dropped a few, but that's most of them).

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  marcus watts on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:30 pm

if the tree lives leave it where it is for a good few years as you need lots of practice and confidence working on tracing live veins, carving, wiring, and most importantly assessing which branches are needed for the design. to do it justice get 10 years bonsai experience under your belt - spend some money learning with Ryan Neil or Boon and then spend a few more dollars booking a series of workshops to give the tree the potential future it deserves.

good luck, they dont need a lot of root to pull through sometimes

regards Marcus

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Rob C on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 pm

Hello tbarkley... I am not sure you realize what you have here. The age, the twists of the trunk and the good health make this an astounding bonsai cadidate. Actually, many in bonsai may never ever get to work with material like this. It may shock you, but if this was to be sold by some bonsai nurseries. They would proabably be asking $20,000 - $30,000. If you got this tree for free and it lives, you have probably pulled off the greatest purchase in the history of bonsai. To go even further, the sample prices I quoted you are for the material as it is now. In 5 years time, it could double or more those numbers. As mentioned by others, I would seek out a highly skilled bonsai artist to help you along with this. Of course, this is after it recovers and is growing well. Which should be in 2-3 years.

Rob

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:00 pm

Wow that's enough berries to make some gin. Good luck and keep us posted.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:02 pm

I would save my money and hire a professional to do the first styling on this tree. That investment would go a long way.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  SMJ76 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:37 pm

Wow, great find! Looks incredible!!!

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Killer Juniper

Post  tbarkley on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:13 am

To Rob.....I did not get it for free. Before I knew he was going to throw it away, I offered him $20 for it, which he took, then told me his plans. I'm new to the hobby, are you sure about your figures? I will definitely keep you guys posted.....hopefully with good news.
I don't know if this is corney or not, but since I was told it's female because of the berries, and because of the serpentine trunk.......would Dragon Lady be ok for this, or am I just weird?

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Dave Murphy on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:38 am

Great material...best landscape collected tree I think I've ever seen.  Potentially worth $1000s.....if it survives the collection.  Try to shade from mid day sun for the next 3-4 weeks if possible, spread the mulch as Jim described, and DON"T over water.  With the mulch in place, a good watering once or twice a week should suffice...pull the mulch away and actually look to see if the soil is drying out before wetting again.  Misting can help, particularly in the early morning.  Don't be surprised to see yellowing foliage in the interior as the tree tries to cope with it's reduced root system.  Come September, green growing tips on the foliage will hopefully be apparent, which means new roots are growing, too.  Still, it will be at least 2 years before you will know whether you have collected  a potential masterpiece or a $20 piece of firewood.  Keep us posted.

...and don't name it until you're sure it'll live...it's bad luck to do otherwise;) .

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  M. Frary on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:04 am

That thing is Badass.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:15 am

I believe the $ value that was stated earlier is accurate if not understated. This is the kind of tree that a yamadori collector would find incredible. What you have is unbelievable. I hope a professional chimes in. This tree demands respect from any bonsai. Professional. Please contact Ryan Neil, Peter tea, ECt. And have them assess this thing.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Rob C on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:26 am

tbarkley wrote:To Rob.....I did not get it for free. Before I knew he was going to throw it away, I offered him $20 for it, which he took, then told me his plans. I'm new to the hobby, are you sure about your figures? I will definitely keep you guys posted.....hopefully with good news.
I don't know if this is corney or not, but since I was told it's female because of the berries, and because of the serpentine trunk.......would Dragon Lady be ok for this, or am I just weird?

I have been in bonsai for 15 years. I worked at a bonsai nursery before and frequent them at least twice a month. As jkkd2572 mentioned, if anything, I understated it. Around here in the northeast, prices are pretty high for great material. However, no matter where you go, the prices I quoted are pretty accurate. Give or take a couple thousand. If this tree lives and then can be developed by a skilled hand. In about 5-10 years, this is easily a $50,000 tree. Kind of makes you look at this tree is a whole new light doesn't it. Very Happy  Providing in a couple of years the tree remains healthy, it would be well worth paying a professional to spend the day with you styling this tree. Even if the day costs you like $400 or more.

I wish you lots of luck with this tree. I look forward to future updates.

Rob

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Brian Van Fleet on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:15 am

Amazing tree.  For what it's worth, I have collected Rocky Mountain junipers and noticed that my success rate for those planted in the ground was far lower than those I containized.  

This year, the RMJ we dug were wrapped in burlap, and jammed tightly into wooden boxes, packed with some very coarse aggregate, and placed in the shade.  They were misted (trunk included) 5-6 times daily for 6-7 weeks, watered about every 14 days, and now, nearly 3 months later, all 14 are thriving and growing.  If this was dug today, I'd consider moving it to a small wooden box:

http://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2013/05/24/south-dakota-collecting-trip-day-4/

I wish you perfect success with this tree, it's amazing material.


Last edited by Brian Van Fleet on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  Jkd2572 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:09 am

I'm still waiting for the photoshop joke.......

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  tbarkley on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:47 am

To Jkd2572.......Sorry, this is NO photoshop joke! I'm as serious as a heart attack on this one! Which is just about what I had when I heard the value figures.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

Post  leatherback on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:38 pm

Forget about the heart attack. It is indeed a nice plant, with a nice trunk. However, from one picture it is dificult to assess how good the plant is. And to be honest.. This is not going to be bought by anyone for 30K. I doubt a bonsai nursery is going to get such prices for their Yamadori (They may put an asking price on it, but buying it for that..). I have seen such impressive pieces go for well below 5K.

Have a look at http://www.kaizenbonsai.com/shop/largetreesforsale.php for some indication of yamadori-level material of a respected dealer & bonsai expert in the UK.

As for further care; Please follow marcus. If you plan on stuyling this alone, do it in ten years from now. Beste would be to get some years experience, and work on it together with a bonsai expert; You will leanr a lot about what you cabn or cannot do, the tree will also be your work. Yet you won't mess it up by trimming some key-branches. The trouble with plants like this is.. They are so nicely developed, that you need to work outside standard bonsai standard guidelines. And for a beginner it is impossible to do that well.

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Re: Need some quick help on a Cedar

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