bonsai pot function?

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bonsai pot function?

Post  zheying on Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:05 am

hi
What is the difference between bonsai pot and a normal flower pot?
Isit just for displaying or it actually make the nebari wider or something?


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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:31 pm

Both -- kinda.

Display and aesthetics are two of the the primary reasons for bonsai pots. Many have compared the bonsai pot to the frame around a painting, but I think that's an inaccurate analogy. You're not supposed to notice the frame (in most instances) and it contributes little or nothing to the art -- except to contain it. The pot, on the other hand, is supposed to be seen and is supposed to complement the overall design of the tree. (In shohin and especially in mame-sized plants, the pot even can become the center of the composition).

The bonsai pot can help improve the base of the tree, but that at best is a secondary purpose; your work on the base should have been accomplished LONG before the tree is placed in a bonsai pot.

Bonsai pots also serve to hold soil and as anchors for the tree and provide stability -- visual and actual.

Nursery pots hold soil, anchor, and provide the room to develop rootage. Generally, while you might use a pot with the volume shown in your picture, you'd prefer the pot to be somewhat more shallow than that while you do your work to improve the base, and grow the top.

Others, I'm sure, will expand this.

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  dick benbow on Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:28 pm

as one begins serious study as to how a pot compliments it's resident, you begin to understand color and contrast, Why some trees
are better suited for glazed pots while others use unglazed. Does the tree look masculine or feminine? Pots can enhance either or find a mixture of both. Style of the pot can make sense, like the solid depth of a cascade pot. With the advent of japanese kilns shutting down, pots can now become a valuable collector's item. Able to stand by themselves or contribute something special to a valued tree.

I use the other style of pot for health reasons as i begin acclimating a native wild grown tree to a life in a pot. Especially if cascade
where the similar depth for roots seems to make sense.

Both can have a purpose in the hobby. it all depends on where you want to go with it....Smile


Last edited by dick benbow on Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:35 pm

Please note that I did not liken a pot to a frame; rather I suggested that the frame concept was a poor analogy.

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  dick benbow on Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:34 pm

I apologize for misquoting you.

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:39 pm

No big deal, I may have not made myself clear.

I have "always" disliked that analogy. (But I bet you that if someone could find a post of mine from back in the 1980s when the IBC was an e-mail list, they'd find me perpetrating that same old saw.)

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:31 pm

Hmm,

I may be asking for trouble here.

The frame with a painting, used to be as a window into another world, especially with the Dutch little master work.
However, the amount of information/action/ colour etc. in an Old Master painting [ Old master being masters down to say Goya.] even with a 18 inch wide frame, carved and in gold, nullifies the presence of the frame.

The idea with the Bonsai pot, as to the frame of a painting, is that it is felt, but not noticed.
It is the earth that gives stability to the tree.
Additionally the eye handles bright colours in large quantities poorly, but delights in tiny colourful things mightily. Hence the use of mame' or pea sized pots and gems in rings.
[ please note if you copy an Old Master, it is mostly greys and browns with touches of seemingly bright colour here and there ----------- as always there are exceptions.]

The philosophy that is present today, hopefully based on scientifc research is that in nature tree's don't grow very long, deep taproots and when growing trees in pots, you don't need deep pots, but wide pots [ how shallow ? I was advised no more than 6" [ 15 cm ] for Japanese Black pines.]
As usual, I am happy to be corrected.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:22 am

zheying wrote:hi
What is the difference between bonsai pot and a normal flower pot?
Isit just for displaying or it actually make the nebari wider or something?




Bonsai pot- harder than flower pot, more resilient to the environment, like frost, heat of summer etc. Built specifically to last longer for bonsai purposes which lasts (usually) longer than flower/garden plants. very expensive compared to flower pot
Flower pot- Usually made of low grade clay materials, plastic or cement. Specifically made for flower/garden plant to minimize cost. more Prone to breakage compared with bonsai pot. way much cheaper than bonsai pot.

Both pots has nothing to do with making nebari wider. there are techniques in doing that.
Both pots can be used for displaying purposes, bonsai will look good in bonsai pot, flower plants will look good in "proper" flower pot.

Note that like bonsai pot which requires knowledge in bonsai and pot combinition to achieve good visual balance same thing is required to flower pot if displaying is the purpose.

regards,
jun:)

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  zheying on Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:09 am

Thanks for answering me!I've got my answer

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:18 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:

in nature trees don't grow very long, deep taproots
Where did you get that? Many species grow long taproots, especially those that grow on windy hillsides or desert areas. Most of the trees we grow as bonsai can be trained to live in a shallow bonsai pot, by gradually removing the taproot, air-layering, or growing from cuttings. Some trees, such as mesquite (Prosopis sp.), are very difficult to bonsai because they refuse to part with their taproot.
Iris

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:58 pm

Here you are Ms. Iris,

http://www.sactree.com/assets/files/greenprint/toolkit/c/huntsvilleTreeGuide.pdf

Thanks for looking.
Khaimraj

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Pot Function

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Aug 02, 2013 5:02 pm

The site says: ‚óŹ Myth: Most tree species have deep taproots; if a tree's taproot is cut, the tree dies.
Well, yes and no. They don't offer any proof. I wouldn't say most trees have long taproots, but many do, including some bonsai subjects. Most trees can probably survive having their taproot cut if they are being replanted in the ground, but we're talking about bonsai here. If you try to dig up a tree with a long taproot, cut off the whole thing, and put it in a bonsai pot, it may well be fatal.
I bought a grove of acacia seedlings last year (a dry savanna species). They were in a bonsai type training pot, but their taproots had not been cut. They were coiled around under the soil. In April, I repotted three of them in a bonsai pot with minimal root trimming, and they took right off. The other two I crammed into a shallow lace rock container, which required cutting off much of their taproots. They sat there for months before they recovered. The one that had the most taproot removed did not sprout until July. It is still growing rather slowly. Stands to reason, major surgery is major surgery.
Iris

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:51 pm

Like other things in life, absolutes are seldom absolutes.

Some trees do and some don't have taproots. As Iris says, environment has a lot to say about it.

Anyone who has ever dug a dryland tree knows about taproots.

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Re: bonsai pot function?

Post  papymandarin on Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:21 am

the taproot is also i think a very species-specific trait but also depend on environment (water availability, nature of the soil and basal rock of this soil ect...). Also it can change depending on the age/stage of development of the tree, a lot of trees have powerful taproots when young, changing for a more spreading/superficial root system when adults

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