Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

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Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  jake4bonsai on Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:07 am

I recently(about two months ago) bought a shimpaku bonsai from a friend that bought it at the mid atlantic show this june. It was owned by Arthur Joura and displayed at the N.C. Arboretum for many years. The gentleman my friend bought it from was getting up there in age and sold it because he can not properly care for his trees anymore. Anyway about a week after I got it inner foliage started turning yellow,then brown then falling off. At first I didn't pay too much attention because I just figured it wasn't getting enough light into the inner foliage and it was losing it for that reason. I didn't panic because I know shimpakus will do that and mind you this tree is not in shape at the moment. Meaning the pads are all grown out and the shape is lost due to it just being kept alive and that's about it. Well it has not stopped dropping foliage! Its still all inner foliage but now you can see through the foliage and before you could not. This picture is how much foliage dies and falls out in about a week to and week and a halfs time. I keep cleaning it out of the canopy and off the soil surface and a week to two weeks its all back! Can anyone shed some light on why this may be happening? I cannot find and signs of spider mites or scales and I don't recall shimpakus have any kind of disease issues. This is an old tree, how old I do not know but its got to be over 50 years old, maybe even much older. I don't know. I have Bjorn Bjornholm coming this september and I wanted him to restore this tree to its former glory and if I don't straighten this thing out by then I'm affraid. Its not going to be possible. I know this is a lengthy post and I apologize, I just wanted everyone to know all the facts.

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  JimLewis on Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:19 pm


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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  ChrisV on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Maybe a root problem?

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  ChrisV on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:36 pm

If it is a rootproblem it can take several months before u notice it.
They can go on on reserves really long but eventually will show that there is something wrong.
I lost one of mine that way.

But whatever it is dont feed it and keep it out of the hot mid-day sun.
With less foliage they cant handel that.
And check The roots.
Good luck

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  Jkd2572 on Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:53 pm

Have you checked for spider mites. Put white piece of paper under foliage. Shake foliage. Look for little dots on the paper that move. Theses little guys are always the #1 threat to my junipers.

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:54 pm

I was thinking spider mites, this is the time year when they are most active.

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  marcus watts on Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:44 pm

hi,

calm down a bit Very Happy  if a shimpaku has a problem the outer foliage browns before the inner - that usually indicates a root / soil / problem. if all the foliage browns at an even rate it will be an insect attack or disease....inner drop is a natural part of a juniper life cycle linked to how much or how little work the tree has had in the previous years.

the more free growth the outer tree has had the more inner old foliage will drop off - if the outer foliage is managed and strong shoots are pruned as they extend the inner foliage gets some extra energy, it gets a little new growth and it won't drop off. any inner shoots that have not made new growth tips will drop off in the future 100% guaranteed and that is why newly acquired and neglected trees drop more than others

the absolute worst thing to do with a newly acquired juniper is to cut back a lot of outer growth to the inner foliage as this may be old growth that will drop off in summer before it gets a chance to make new growth tips. all is not lost though as new buds form on the inner wood exposed by the drop of old foliage - you get more buds if you feed well and prune just the strong outer shoots (no pinching of all growth tips). Shimpaku pads cycle through looking great, looking bare inside, getting new buds & being cut back to the inner foliage, regrowing and looking great again - its a constant cycle and essential to maintaining a 'finished' tree.

clean out all the yellow shoots as you see them, then light and air gets in to help new buds form

cheers

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Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  jake4bonsai on Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:44 am

I appriciate everyones input! I did look for the most obvious causes such as spider mites and scale and found nothing but also even if there were insects I use bayer 12 month systemic insecticide and it works very well so any insects that tried feeding on the tree would have been killed before an infestation could occur. I also thought maybe it was just dropping foliage like shimpakus can do but I've never seen one drop this much and just keep on dropping with no stop in sight! It is putting on new growth but its losing more than its putting on. The only thing I can think off is someone that owned it before me let it get too dry and it damaged the tree extensively or the soil is staying damp too long. I've tilted the pot so when I water the excess runs out and doesn't sit in the pot and I always check the soil for water needs. I don't just water haphazardly. This is why I don't understand, I usually can diagnose my own trees but I've checked and done all I know to do. All I guess I can do is wait! I tried to post pictures but this new blackberry won't give me the options to attach a picture. Thanks again everyone and ill keep you all up dated!

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SHIMPAKU LOSING MASSES OF FOLIAGE

Post  jake4bonsai on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:08 am

Can someone tell me what is best to kill spider mites on Shimpaku Juniper without damaging foliage or stressing the tree. Please don't recommend a neem oil product because neem is crap! I need something that KILLS spider mites and destroys eggs without further stress to the tree. I believe this is my problem and if not resolved I'm going to lose this very old tree!

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  Jkd2572 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:23 am

spectracide malathion frys those little juni killers. Avid works as well, but avid is when you have to go nuclear. You will need to spray once then again in 7 to 10 days to kill the egg cycle. The pesticides kill the adults,but not the egg so a second application is needed. Then I would spray once a month for the rest of the season. I had spider mites this year that had become immune to the Bayer products. One should cycle pesticides so this does not happen. I learned my lesson this year.

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SHIMPAKU LOSING MASSES OF FOLIAGE

Post  jake4bonsai on Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:51 am

Last weekend I worked with Owen Reich and he said that its not that they become immune to the bayer products like the bayer advance systemic that him and I both use but he said it only kills the adults and that you have to use two other products because spider mites have 3 stages. Egg, larvae, and adult and he said it takes a different product for each stage. One kills eggs, one kills larvae, and one kills adults. He could not remember the names of each product but I can't find anything like this on the net. I am awaiting a response from him as to where I can get these specialized insecticides. Mailthion I would have to order because no one sells it around here and the walmart here has already started putting their gardening supplies away for winter. Down falls of living in a tiny american town! I will get one of the products you have suggested unless Owen gets back to me soon. Thank you!

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  Jkd2572 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:36 am

Then go nuclear. Order online. Looks expensive, but will last you forever. You mix 1/4 teaspoon per gallon. Indoor medicinal grow houses use this for crops that are worth millions. And insects do mutate and become immune to certain insecticides that is why nurseries rotate different insecticides. This stuff is recommended to were protective clothing and a$20 respirator is not a bad idea. Nothing left standing pesticide. AVID. Used this summer to get things under control after a mutated mite outbreak attacked both bonsai yard trees.
http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/avid-015-ec-miticide-insecticide-p-2330.html

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  Gary Swiech on Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:56 am

I've always used Nicotine sulfate. If you can't find it at a hardware store or such (I don't know if they've banned selling it), buy a pack of cigarettes, and soak them in water for a day.

Mix it in a spray bottle, definitely wear a mask!!!, and then spray the juniper inside and out until it's dripping wet. Nicotine sulfate will create a mist that will kill the critters. Repeat every a couple of weeks until the symptoms are gone. It's always worked for me. Se if you can get the regular Nicotine sulfate first and follow the directions, then you don't need to buy cigarettes.

It's inexpensive and bottle lasts forever too.

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Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  jake4bonsai on Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:22 pm

I have lost 5 years off my life worrying about this shimpaku for the last several months and turns out for absolutely nothing! I just had my annual workshop/studygroup with Bjorn Bjornholm and it turns out this is a keishu shimpaku he said and they defoliate their inner foliage every year if you do not keep the foliage significantly reduced to allow light and air to the inner branches. He said this tree is perfectly healthy and we styled it! It looks great. My black berry won't let me post pictures for some reason but pretty soon ill get it posted with my computer so everyone can see it. Very much relieved to know the tree is fine and strong and hopefully a long healthy life ahead of it.

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

Post  JimLewis on Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:52 pm

I've found that a hard jet spray of water into the foliage of a juniper will take care of spider mite problems without poisoning the entire neighborhood.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Shimpaku

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:34 am

What people don't realize about the Bayer product, Imidacloprid, is that it does not kill spider mites at all. On the contrary, it kills the parasitic wasps that keep the mite population down, so if you keep using Imidacloprid, you will get an explosion of spider mites. There is a newer product out that combines Imidacloprid, a fungicide, & a miticide.
Iris

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Re: Shimpaku losing masses of foliage

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