new stump acquired (not a limb)

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bobby little on Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:10 am

Blimey. Bobby Robson said Craig Bellamy could start an argument in a room on his own. I don't think he was referring to the internet.

Basically, I got the tree because the splendid ld biddy next door got her grandson to cut it down and pull the stump out. She was going to dump it, so I thought sod it, I'll have it and see what I can do with it. I aint anticipating creating a work of art, but I thought it would be good practice and it cost nowt (see, honorary jock) and it's too big for even my dog to savage. So in answer to the original question, sifting through then thread, it's unlikely to do much because there isn't enough green on it now to generate more, so I shouldn't hope for much action next spring? I might as well use it to practice using my poor man's cheap version of the dremel.

Incidentally, the monster hawthorn / blackthorn I posted months ago and got howked by walter over is surving and growing quite nicely. most of it has died, but there's one trunk(?) has thrown out a lot of new growth, so i think I have the possiblity of doing something quite nice with it with a lot of carving. Snooks.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:39 am

Sounds to me like you're enjoying yourself, and, a bit of blind faith has paid off for you (re: the Blackthorn). Keep doing what you're doing!

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bobby little on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:58 pm

I'm a newcastle supporter. blind faith is in my genes Very Happy the blackthorne could prove to be my first creation from scratch of any decent standard. providing i don't cock it up.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:13 pm

Hi Bobby, hijacking your post again! Bit of a delay with a reply, Tony,but if I'd answered at the time I would have been banned from the forum. It's as if you hadn't read my previous post at all. you implied that my approach stifles early development - I don't understand why you would feel the need to say this,you know very little of the way i work. In my workshops, I have taught students of varying abilities and goals, but all with bucketfuls of enthusiasm. Why then would I want to put them off by throwing their material in the bin and offer them no advise and guidance, Just like you did? Although I talk through the choice of material with the student, pointing out the weaknesses, at the end of the day some people want to make their own decision about how they spend their effort, time and money.Maybe a bit more moderation, Mr Moderator.


Last edited by will baddeley on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bobby little on Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:47 pm

howay chaps. Let's be nice eh? we're all p*ssing in the same pot here.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  fiona on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:05 am

Don't say that, Bobby or you'll start a lengthy fertiliser discussion Laughing

However, if you're happy with your answers received I reckon it's time to put the thread to bed or start some totally meaningless drivel.

So, what's the difference between Alan Shearer and Newcastle United?

You can still see Shearer on Match Of The Day. Evil or Very Mad

OR

What's the difference between the Newcastle keeper and a taxi driver?

A taxi driver will only let in four at a time.


Bobby, do feel free to wade in with any amount of rejoinder - my team are currently languishing at the bottom of the Scottish First Division.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Tony on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 pm

Hi Will,

OK I admit I am passionate about my approach to teaching bonsai, what frustrates the hell out of me are folk who believe that beginners use ‘starter material’ (Twigs in pots) or ‘poor material’ (whacking great stumps) to ‘learn’.

I recently I had the pleasure of visiting a bonsai enthusiast’s garden that I had never been in before. They had over 300 ‘bonsai’ (note the ‘’) After an hour walking around the garden the owner confided that they ‘only wanted a few really good trees’ If the master that they had worked with was more ‘ruthless’ they would indeed have a few really good trees. Over the years this person must have spent thousands of pounds, hundreds of days and STILL only had three trees of any real interest/beauty… is that a fair way to treat a student? Cruel to be kind?

Those who view this forum ‘usually’ wish to improve their bonsai the least we can be is honest.

Will this is NOT a dig at you. I admire the work you have done and the valuable input you make to the forum. Smile


Last edited by Tony on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  landerloos on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:21 pm

Tony wrote:Hi Will,

OK I admit I am passionate about my approach to teaching bonsai, what frustrates the hell out of me are folk who believe that beginners use ‘starter material’ (Twigs in pots) or ‘poor material’ (whacking great stumps) to ‘learn’.

I recently I had the pleasure of visiting a bonsai enthusiast’s garden that I had never been in before. They had over 300 ‘bonsai’ (note the ‘’) After an hour walking around the garden the owner confided that they ‘only wanted a few really good trees’ If the master that they had worked with was more ‘ruthless’ they would indeed have a few really good trees. Over the years this person must have spent thousands of pounds, hundreds of days and STILL only had three trees of any real interest/beauty… is that a fair way to treat a student? Cruel to be kind?

Those who view this forum ‘usually’ wish to improve their bonsai the least we can be is honest.

I totaly agree with Tony, dont start with sticks like I did years ago, its a waist of time, money and effort.
I was so lucky that Tony did go trough some of my trees, and believe it or not the ones he told me to get rit of, where already gone in my brain.
I'm glad Tony took the time and effort to do this.
In our local club I,m the badass that points trees out as worthles, you should see and hear the reactions of the "old" gard.
Ofcourse this one can become a bonsai (I heard that a million times), me saying plant it in your garden its not worth the effort, than the discusions start. Rolling Eyes

Kind regards
Peter

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Stone Monkey on Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:07 pm

I also have to agree I would have loved to have skipped the first 5 years of reading books and tending sticks. Then I met Mick Sherman, my world and view of Bonsai changed for the better. Mick advised me to do the same thing, clear out the rubbish and keep the good material. Also another bit of advice given to me by Mick if you have a budget for you bonsai expenses for the year, say £300, spend it on a good piece of material for £300 not 30 trees for £10 each.

All the best

Andy

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:30 pm

We're back to the same old discussion. And while it appears the concensus is that we would all have preferred to have skipped the first 5 years, we've all experienced the first 5 years (some did better than others.) So why would we expect everyone else to skip the first 5 years.

Its like the old addage "The first million is the hardest to earn", so I figured I skip the first and start with the second.

Or maybe, if I had known grandkids would be this much fun, I would have skipped the kids and went straight to the grandkids.

The question is, if I had skipped the first 5 years, would that make me 5 years older or 5 years younger. It is important that I get that one right, cuz while I wouldn't mind being 47 again, I'm not ready to be 57!

So back to the serious discussion. I became interested in bonsai, because I saw a movie, yeah, that one! I didn't act on it until I saw one for sale and because I didn't know anything about the right and wrong places to get a bonsai, or how to care for it, it died.

It would be great, for all new hobbies and interests, if human nature didn't lend itself to putting the cart before the horse, but we are who we are.

That being said, I would love to have a yard full of perfect bonsai, never cut off the wrong branch, never pick the wrong starting material...ETC!

But even the masters have been known to make an oops every now and then, and I, in my own little bonsai world, still like to take a chance an a piece of cheap or free material in the chance that I might get lucky, maybe learn something, and not tick off my wife by spending $500 on a tree to just to turn it into firewood!

Work the stump! Have fun with it and as Mr. Myogi said "Picture perfect tree!"

Jay

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:42 pm

Bobby:

Consider this possibility. In the initial post, the photo shows a cut of stub a few inches below the point where all the branches begin. Cut off the rest at or below that point, cut it in a "V" or a "W" or a"U" (or any other letter you decide on) and see if it shoots new buds. Allow them to develop for a year or two, then saving the best branches, whittle the hell out of the rest of the stump to see what you come up with.

If it ends up in the bin tomorrow, or 5 years from tomorrow, will be the difference of enjoying the possibilities of a stump verses absolutely nothing!

Have at it, and in between developing your perfect forest of bonsai, have a little fun with the stump!

Jay

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bonsai monkey on Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:10 pm

Tony wrote:
I recently I had the pleasure of visiting a bonsai enthusiast’s garden that I had never been in before. They had over 300 ‘bonsai’ (note the ‘’)

I didn’t know that you popped around to mine while I was out Tony (just ask Andy!!)

Joking aside, I’ve been reading this thread with interest and the splinters that I have have finally gotten to me. I can see both Will & Tony’s points of view but I’m tending to come down on the side of the later. I have got so practice material and as Will points out it is good practice/experience. By all means keep the stump as I’ve got a large dead Juniper stump that I’m gunna use for carving practice as on a real tree once its gone its gone!

As for trying to cut out the so called “wasted years” I think that this is something that most of us in one way or another would like to have avoided/cut down on. The plight that Bobby and I for that matter suffer with is that we are “enthusiastic hobbyists” rather than “dedicated amateurs” (no offence meant Bobby). We are like young saplings, vigorous and full of potential but unsure which way nature (this hobby) will take us.

Concerning the subject of teachers this is a very personal thing. Some people are lucky enough to be able to call upon experience people locally or just be able to put books into practice. Unfortunately, I fall into the “I need lots of help” category. Totally inspired and confident one moment and at a total loss for the balance of the time. I have been very lucky this year or so and had some fantastic advice and help from some very kind people, you all know who you are, but I have drawn the conclusion that if I want to take my Bonsai to the next level I needed to get some professional help. So the garden broom came out to help clear the “unfortunates” from my collection and signed on the dotted line for Burrs. The rest, I feel, is up to me. If I can’t progress from this type of workshop then I think it might be time to hang up the cutters.

Anyho Bobby, go with your gut and see where this takes you. There is really no right or wrong answer to your query.

Love, Peace & Bananas,
Simon

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bobby little on Thu Sep 24, 2009 5:53 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote:Bobby:

Consider this possibility. In the initial post, the photo shows a cut of stub a few inches below the point where all the branches begin. Cut off the rest at or below that point, cut it in a "V" or a "W" or a"U" (or any other letter you decide on) and see if it shoots new buds. Allow them to develop for a year or two, then saving the best branches, whittle the hell out of the rest of the stump to see what you come up with.

If it ends up in the bin tomorrow, or 5 years from tomorrow, will be the difference of enjoying the possibilities of a stump verses absolutely nothing!

Have at it, and in between developing your perfect forest of bonsai, have a little fun with the stump!

Jay

thank you sah. Should I do this now or leave it until spring? I suspect it might be easier to generate new growth when the sap's a risin as 'twere.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:08 pm

Hi Bobby. Good to talk again. Jay suggests cutting the Juniper below the foliage, unfortunately you cant do this with Juniper, it will die.

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:07 pm

OK, Bobby, It appears no matter what there will be those who want you to chuck it.

With that said, here are 2 more possibilities:

1. Cut it off above the lowest branches still alive and see what happens.

I have two False Cypress trees that are not supposed to backbud on hardened wood. Both have new shoots on the trunk just down from the bottom branches.

2. Worse case scenario, pot it up, leave it alone till next year and see where she goes.

It still boils down to "take the stump, do with it what you can, until you can't."

Over the winter, read as much as you can about the species and enjoy the "experiment".

Anything is possible, until you quit! (Another fine quote, by Me!)

Jay

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  bobby little on Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:33 pm

thanks chaps. I'll go with the compromise of chopping it back above the remaining growth and see what occrs.

Fiona, I'm rising above the toon jokes (although I enjoyed the match of the day one, you jock weasel Laughing Mad ) which is your team?

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  fiona on Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:54 pm

Oh the mighty Greenock Morton of course. We have a very strong team this year - you can tell just how strong they are from the fact that they are holding nine other teams up above them.

And yes, there is an apochryphal tale (told also, no doubt, of many other teams) about the person who listened regularly to the classified results of a Saturday evening and thought the team was called Greenockmortonnil.

Or the best ever Scottish football result (actually true) for a newsreader to get their teeth round:
Forfar 5 : East Fife 4

Or the actual newspaper headline when Celtic got thrashed 3-0 by (alleged) minnows Inverness Caley Thistle:
SuperCaleyGoBallisticCelticAreAtrocious

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  Tony on Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:53 am

And I thought they were called "Partick Thistle Nil"

Tony

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  fiona on Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:55 am

I can no longer make that comment as they are one of the ones who have gubbed us in recent weeks.


Last edited by fiona on Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : never type without your contact lenses in)

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

Post  wabashene on Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:44 am

All the above notwithstanding, does anyone else think this looks suspiciously like the dreaded leylandii ?

TimR

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Re: new stump acquired (not a limb)

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