Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

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Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  NeilDellinger on Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:13 am

Question for anyone w/ quince experience.

Several articles I've read, including one in Bonsai international state to repot quince in autumn.

Autumn is a fairly broad term.

When specifically in autumn.... after leaves drop, after a frost, once temps begin dropping. Just looking for some general practical experience.

How will autumn pruning and repotting impact flower production?

Thanks guys.
Neil

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Seth Ellwood on Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:33 am

I have always potted mine in spring b4 bud burst that way all of the roots that have stored energy for dormancy can be utilised b4 removeing them but I have only had quince for 3 years now and have not had a bloom but i dont know if the tree has to be mature in order to bloom.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  AlainK on Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:28 am

If it is advised to repot Chaenomeles in autumn, it is because when done done in spring it is more prone to be the victim of various diseaeses.

I can't find again the post on a French forum from a member who is a professional specialist of plants, she gave more accurate details than I can, but basically, according to what she wrote, the tree is much resistant when repotting is done in Autumn, after leaves drop.

I wouldn't think it has any incidence on the flowering of the tree, a healthy tree correctly fertilized at the right time is a more important factor to my mind.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Carolee on Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:08 am

Neil, the question of what constitutes autumn is a good one.I also had read to repot in autumn, so I just did mine yesterday. But it was before leaf drop. Thanks for the info Alain.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  roberthu526 on Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:42 pm

In China, the most popular idea is to repot in spring right after bloom. But prune in fall is also necessary to styple the tree for next year's bloom and to avoid some overwintering disease and worms. Also, fall fertilizering is very important for not just quince, but for all trees especially the ones that bloom in spring before leaves sprout. Heavy fertilizering should start as soon as the temp. starts to drop and forcu on P and K, not N to promote more root and stem growth, not new leave.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:13 am

I doubt that autumn is THE time to repot a quince, but it's probably a good enough time. I repot in the spring, along with all my other trees.

If you are going to do it now, I'd wait until the leaves are gone and it is asleep. Much less traumatic on the tree.


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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  drgonzo on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:18 am

On the advice of several articles including one in Bill Valavanis's magazine, I just re-potted mine last week and brought the leggy summer growth down to two nodes on each branch. Leaves are still on and the tree didn't miss a beat, Though I barely had to touch the roots at all going into the new pot out of her training box.

Now when I got this Quince in the spring it had just finished flowering and I took it out of its one gallon nursery container, gave it a little bit of a trim, and got it into good bonsai soil with only a little root pruning and she SULKED for almost a month and a half then finally started new growth.

For whatever thats worth to ya.

For this Yankee, Autumn is September 15th till October 10th (apple picking...isn't it pretty?),
Fall is from the 10th till snow (time to get the wood in).

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  drgonzo on Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:26 am

One thing I'd love to know is why we cut back so hard in the fall to encourage the "flowering spurs".

Is it similar to the reason why we must do wisteria, to remove the hormone for vegetative growth from the long summer growth in favor of the hormone that induces flower bud formation?

Or is that not even close? Laughing
-jay

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Quince repotting in fall or spring

Post  GeneMartin on Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:40 am

On January 21, 2011 there was an exchange on the Bonsai Study Group forum between Bill Valavanis and John Kirby. Bill said "...I've been growing and training Japanese Flowering Quince for over 45 years here in America. I always transplant them in spring, NOT in autumn".

John said "...I have found that fall repotting is the most relable, in my climate (former) in Arkansas where this species and chinese quince only rarely go completely dormant. I have only repotted a few hundred over the years, we never have had a lot of them, but have had siginificantly better success in the fall than in the spring, close to 100% survival in the fall and less than 50% in the spring, but as you have pointed out, that is in our moderate climate with trees under plastic."

So depending on your climate, there may be some value to repotting in the fall.

Respectfully,
Gene

BTW, the link to that thread is BSG link

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  drgonzo on Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:44 am

The flowering quince article that Bill V. links to and edited as a part of one of his magazines states on page 4 that Flowering quince are transplanted in the fall to help avoid nematode infestations. Yet it also seems to mention that cuttings can be transplanted in the spring. I was most interested to find out why they respond to the hard prune in late autumn with flowering spurs. Here is a link to the article, its a pdf. freely downloadable from Bills website, I'm sure he wouldn't mind my sharing it as it is outstanding.
http://www.internationalbonsai.com/files/1708315/uploaded/flowering_quince_article.pdf

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  dick benbow on Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:26 pm

would also like to have this conversation about the soils they are potted into....Smile also i hear that they like moisture and that deeper pots then normal are a good way to go, yet all the kokufu ten books with winning chojubai are in incredible shallow pots. thoughts?

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:46 pm



Well, first, don't go by what to see in show books. That's for "show", and not necessarily good horticultural practices...

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:49 pm

drgonzo wrote:One thing I'd love to know is why we cut back so hard in the fall to encourage the "flowering spurs".

Is it similar to the reason why we must do wisteria, to remove the hormone for vegetative growth from the long summer growth in favor of the hormone that induces flower bud formation?

Or is that not even close? Laughing
-jay

From my experience (I have a contorted white) quince flowers on 2 year old wood. Mine always flowers on older wood for three years now. But for some reason (and I tested this last year) when you cut back real hard all the new growth that it puts out has new flowers on it. I can't remember what month I whacked mine, but it sure was a nice surprise to come home to some pretty flowers. I grow mine is straight turface, I feed the hell out of it and water the hell out of it.

Does anyone have experience in increasing ramification on these guys? I keep seeing quinces in pictures that look amazing and mine is just Ehhhh at best. Maybe after 30 years it'll start to look awesome.

Have a great week everyone!!!
Sam

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  dick benbow on Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:13 pm

Under the tutilage of michael hagedorn, he has me clipping back new shoots as they harden to the second set of leaves. Yes it does take a long time. I prefer kabudachi style (clump) because you actually get more blooms then the single trunk. The blooms seem to come on the end where last clipped.

any comment on the soil your using? I've been discovering because of our intense moisture issues here along the coast of washington state in 3 out of four seasons, I'm gradually drifting away from moisture retentive ingredients and going more for drainage. Keeps me a bit more active in summer watering, which i actually don't mind.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  drgonzo on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:54 pm

I've read that Japanese quince flowers on last years wood, I didn't believe it even though the article was on a pro landscapers website, I too thought it flowers on 2 year old wood. Mine is putting her buds on 2 year old wood.

I have read some folks advising leaving all new extension in place and then cutting back to 1 or 2 buds in fall in order to develop flowering "spurs" it was the word "spurs" that got me wondering if there was a similarity to wisteria in that the removal of the apical bud on wisteria allows for flower bud formation because the auxin that dictates vegetative growth bud production is removed with those buds towards the tips of new growth.

Others recommend pruning back to 2 buds once 5-7 have formed and to do this throughout the season in a similar way to which we develop any tree.

I wish someone who was an expert with Japanese quince would come in here at this point and give us their care calendar and why they do things that particular way as advice with regards to pruning to encourage flowers and/or ramification with this species seems contradictory or at least confusing at best.

For me I just whacked back to 2 buds in fall, and re-potted at the same time (pure Turface as is my usual) and the other day I saw several flower buds developing on the lower trunk and branches! Really looking forward to it this spring!
-Jay

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:04 pm

drgonzo wrote:For me I just whacked back to 2 buds in fall, and re-potted at the same time (pure Turface as is my usual) and the other day I saw several flower buds developing on the lower trunk and branches! Really looking forward to it this spring!
-Jay

See...now that's curious. I never get flowers on my trunk, only on the branches.

Turface has worked out extremely well for me. I usually add some small lava rock to the mix as well. All my plants love it...so far.

~Sam~

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  JimLewis on Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:21 pm

all the kokufu ten books with winning chojubai are in incredible shallow pots. thoughts?

Chances are better than good that for all the rest of the year they are in larger, deeper pots. Show trees are in show pots. When they're not in the show, they're in every-day pots.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:29 pm

JimLewis wrote:
all the kokufu ten books with winning chojubai are in incredible shallow pots. thoughts?

Chances are better than good that for all the rest of the year they are in larger, deeper pots. Show trees are in show pots. When they're not in the show, they're in every-day pots.


I could swear I've heard that somewhere...

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  NeilDellinger on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:15 pm

So this is an old thread! Since this was started I've found that spring repotting is fine and has not caused any nematode issues for me at all. I use straight turface as well & wash all old soil away. I find that in the heat of the summer (even in the milder northern illinois summer) I need to keep shaded 1/2 day and sometimes water twice. Even with a deeper pot & a layer of sphagnum moss on the surface. Last summer I began sitting the pot on top of another pot full of moss. It helped Imenslely.

The year I clipped regularly to develop ramification I had fewer flower buds. Now, I trim long shoots in may & again in late fall.

I fertilize with bone meal only now & have more buds & less aphids. Bother are good, makes developing branch structure a bit slower though.

Quince are also sensitive to slight/short warm ups in winter. We had a few days in the 40's in Chicago and I am seeing leaf buds emerging now.

Hope the info is helpful.



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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  marcus watts on Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:20 pm

JimLewis wrote:
all the kokufu ten books with winning chojubai are in incredible shallow pots. thoughts?

Chances are better than good that for all the rest of the year they are in larger, deeper pots. Show trees are in show pots. When they're not in the show, they're in every-day pots.

hi,

yes, thats what they do - the main shows tend to be timed right around repotting time so the rootballs can be pruned back as usual but then the trimmed rootball is squeezed into a small antique pot for the show, once the trees are back at the nursery the tree is put into the larger everyday pots with new soil etc. Even though it is a stressfull time for the trees they normally then get 10 years or even more before being entered into another show, so plenty of recovery time.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:37 pm

NeilDellinger wrote:So this is an old thread! Since this was started I've found that spring repotting is fine and has not caused any nematode issues for me at all. I use straight turface as well & wash all old soil away. I find that in the heat of the summer (even in the milder northern illinois summer) I need to keep shaded 1/2 day and sometimes water twice. Even with a deeper pot & a layer of sphagnum moss on the surface. Last summer I began sitting the pot on top of another pot full of moss. It helped Imenslely.

The year I clipped regularly to develop ramification I had fewer flower buds. Now, I trim long shoots in may & again in late fall.

I fertilize with bone meal only now & have more buds & less aphids. Bother are good, makes developing branch structure a bit slower though.

Quince are also sensitive to slight/short warm ups in winter. We had a few days in the 40's in Chicago and I am seeing leaf buds emerging now.

Hope the info is helpful.




I haven't checked out the discussion that was mentioned before, but I can't imagine how fall vs spring repotting would have any impact on nematodes. Jose Luis told me to be cautious with nematodes and my Malpighia, and recommended adding ground shrimp or crab shells to the soil mix. I wonder if that would work with quince and gardenias too...

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  drgonzo on Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:46 pm

thank you for your response Neil, that was the sort of info I was looking for.
-Jay

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  NeilDellinger on Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:39 am

Apparently, the nematodes are more active during the warmer weather. As you repot & root prune during the spring, as the weather warms the nematodes become more active & they are more likely to infect the plant.

In the fall, the roots are still actively growing, but the nematodes are less active as fall progresses into winter and temps drop. Thus, the timing is important.

But, I believe diligence in washing all old soil is an important preventive step that makes spring a bit more safe.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:19 am

I guess here in my climate it doesn't make a difference. Plants either have nematode problems or they don't. I've seen dwarf gardenias (radicans) wiped out, but quince don't seem any worse for wear.

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

Post  NeilDellinger on Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:23 am

Russell,
Is that the variety of gardenia commonly used for bonsai? I know its a dwarf variety. Those fat trunked little shohin gardenias I see in albums are great! Just curious if thats the variety.

Neil

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Re: Quince (Cheanomeles) repotting

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