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Bonsai from seed

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Bonsai from seed - Page 2 Empty A 12 Year Old Smallish JBP From Seed

Post  mrcasey Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:28 am

The below tree has a 2" trunk above the root swelling.  The tree is 12" tall and the trunk is essentially finished.  I have the first branch extensions on each outside bend.  This is the first summer that I've candled.  Sorry the sacrifices kind of obscure things.  The nebari looks better than the picture shows.  I plan on putting the tree in a pot next spring.  I realize that the 90 degree bends are tedious and artificial, but it is what it is...
      
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Casey

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Bonsai from seed - Page 2 Empty Re: Bonsai from seed

Post  PeacefulAres Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:51 pm

I think it might depend on what you're growing from seed. Some trees just grow at a supernatural rate, so they would be good candidates for these projects. I'm young, so I'm going to try it. I have a couple dozen small trees that I started from seed. Some are in grow beds and others are planted in the ground. Hopefully in a couple of years I'll have some nice material to start working on.

Cuttings are fun to work with too. I have a few crape myrtle cuttings that I'm letting grow freely, and they're about to flower. The more plants I can enjoy, the better Smile
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Bonsai from seed - Page 2 Empty Re: Bonsai from seed

Post  Leo Schordje Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:57 am

AnjaM - those are very nicely done trees, well done from seed. These are becoming very nice bonsai. Well done. I'd love to see these trees with another decade of growing and refinement on them, they will be very nice. 

MrCasey-I like what you have done with the black pine. Once it is thick enough that you remove the escape branches the angle will soften some from the sharp 90 angles you have, and the tree will have a lot of movement. I would not worry about it looking "Formula" at this stage. Time and the occasional accidental branch loss or you deliberately applying technique will take it away from the "formula" pattern. Right now you have a good pre-bonsai, ready for a serious styling session. 

To Vance - I totally agree with your point
Vance Wood wrote:I have nothing against growing things from seed but the funny truth about the process is that a tree is grown up to a point then cut down------just like we do when we buy larger material and cut it down.  If in your cultivation of material you are serious this is what you should  be doing.  You grow out the seedling until it exceeds the size you would like as a bonsai in order to develop a trunk worth dealing with,  Then you cut it down to develop a substantially shorter crown and branching.  What you have done is to develop your own raw material.  

If however; you limit yourself to seed culture only, you will most likely have second rate bonsai because  you are constantly having to learn new techniques to deal with the stages of development your seedlings are currently in.  You never really master anything more sophisticated than watering, repotting and fertilizing.  However if you work on larger material and learn all of the things involved in design and cultural issues you will be better prepared to deal with your up and coming seedlings.

That is why I pointed out that I have a mix of trees. A few old yamadori, a few from nursery stock, these are the trees I consider my bonsai. I really don't consider my raising of seedlings as being 'bonsai' per se. But rather as a nureryman's activity, with the goal of turning them into suitable pre-bonsai stock. I do expect to be able to live long enough to see my yamadori Ponderosa pines in a show or two. I don't expect to live long enough to personally exhibit my seedlings in shows, it will be for others to develop them in the future. 

It really is a good point, if you only work with one type of stock, you will never get to use (and by default not learn) techniques for older, more developed bonsai. One's choice of material to work on does determine what techniques you will be able to practice. And as with all skills requiring dexterity and experience, one needs to practice to get good at it. I take your point to heart. I want to continue to learn.

I just happen to be one of those guys who likes to raise seedlings, and I do recognize that it is taking away from time I have to learn technique for older, more refined trees. I do have some older trees I am working on, but I don't see myself (here I am speaking only for myself) getting rid of my seedlings to to exclusively work on older more developed stock. But I understand your caution to others, especially to those new to the hobby, who don't realize how the choice of stock limits what techniques you can practice.
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Bonsai from seed - Page 2 Empty Re: Bonsai from seed

Post  Vance Wood Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:25 am

Leo Schordje wrote:AnjaM - those are very nicely done trees, well done from seed. These are becoming very nice bonsai. Well done. I'd love to see these trees with another decade of growing and refinement on them, they will be very nice. 

MrCasey-I like what you have done with the black pine. Once it is thick enough that you remove the escape branches the angle will soften some from the sharp 90 angles you have, and the tree will have a lot of movement. I would not worry about it looking "Formula" at this stage. Time and the occasional accidental branch loss or you deliberately applying technique will take it away from the "formula" pattern. Right now you have a good pre-bonsai, ready for a serious styling session. 

To Vance - I totally agree with your point
Vance Wood wrote:I have nothing against growing things from seed but the funny truth about the process is that a tree is grown up to a point then cut down------just like we do when we buy larger material and cut it down.  If in your cultivation of material you are serious this is what you should  be doing.  You grow out the seedling until it exceeds the size you would like as a bonsai in order to develop a trunk worth dealing with,  Then you cut it down to develop a substantially shorter crown and branching.  What you have done is to develop your own raw material.  

If however; you limit yourself to seed culture only, you will most likely have second rate bonsai because  you are constantly having to learn new techniques to deal with the stages of development your seedlings are currently in.  You never really master anything more sophisticated than watering, repotting and fertilizing.  However if you work on larger material and learn all of the things involved in design and cultural issues you will be better prepared to deal with your up and coming seedlings.

That is why I pointed out that I have a mix of trees. A few old yamadori, a few from nursery stock, these are the trees I consider my bonsai. I really don't consider my raising of seedlings as being 'bonsai' per se. But rather as a nureryman's activity, with the goal of turning them into suitable pre-bonsai stock. I do expect to be able to live long enough to see my yamadori Ponderosa pines in a show or two. I don't expect to live long enough to personally exhibit my seedlings in shows, it will be for others to develop them in the future. 

It really is a good point, if you only work with one type of stock, you will never get to use (and by default not learn) techniques for older, more developed bonsai. One's choice of material to work on does determine what techniques you will be able to practice. And as with all skills requiring dexterity and experience, one needs to practice to get good at it. I take your point to heart. I want to continue to learn.

I just happen to be one of those guys who likes to raise seedlings, and I do recognize that it is taking away from time I have to learn technique for older, more refined trees. I do have some older trees I am working on, but I don't see myself (here I am speaking only for myself) getting rid of my seedlings to to exclusively work on older more developed stock. But I understand your caution to others, especially to those new to the hobby, who don't realize how the choice of stock limits what techniques you can practice.

VANCE WOOD

As I have said previously I have no problem with growing from seed.  It is actually quite entertaining and profitable.  Seed culture is almost the only way to get certain trees that are unattainable any other way.
Vance Wood
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