Root grafting Scots Pine ?

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Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:49 pm

Picked up this Scots Pine a couple of years ago. Thought it will make a nice semi cascade. Repotted it this spring,from a large deep container and found it has quite serious inverse taper. Does anyone have experience of root grafting Pines, possibly a pictorial record? I also need to know time to perform this proceedure. Have used the approach grafting tecnique on branches with great success. Any advice please.[quote][left]


Last edited by will baddeley on Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:52 pm

Here's a side picture

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  AlainK on Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:11 pm

Not so sure about what you mean by "root-grafting":

"Self-approach grafting" (why are foreign languages so hard to master when you can't speak with your hands as we semi-mediterranean people do Wink ? ) should work, I'm trying that on scots pine and it apparently works very well : I'll wait until next spring/early summer to severe the grafts that I have already thinned with cutters on two sides in late July, the graft seems to have taken...

Grafting seedlings "should" work too : if the cut in the tree's bark and the graft is in the same direction, it should work even better than on junipers because the sap in pines flows in all directions whereas in junipers, you have to follow the live veins. So if it works on junipers, it will work on pines.

But: pines are suiting species for dead wood, isn't there a way to keep the whole tree by "jinning the trunk" ?...

If I were you, I'd ask friends-in-bonsai who can see it in 3-D.

Also, I'd definitely put it in a larger pot for a few months before working it.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:11 pm

Hi Alain. By root grafting, I mean grafting on several saplings higher up the trunk, to lose the inverse taper. Im not sure what you mean byjinning the trunk? How will that get rid of the inverse taper?

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:17 pm

Sounds like you are referring to air-layering. Removing the live tissue around the trunk or branch, dusting with rooting hormone, covering it in wet moss and wrapping it in plastic and alloring roots to form so you can cut it loose and form a new tree.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:56 pm

Jay. If only I was! Ihave done lots of air layering but unfortunately Pines are very difficult to get to root.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:04 pm

Well, hopefully someone will provide an answer and we can all learn something new.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  AlainK on Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:08 pm

will baddeley wrote:Hi Alain. By root grafting, I mean grafting on several saplings higher up the trunk, to lose the inverse taper. Im not sure what you mean byjinning the trunk? How will that get rid of the inverse taper?

I mean carving the trunk, making dead wood.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Kev Bailey on Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:33 pm

I'm sure that this can work, if you use approach grafting. It's not something I've done, but the principle is well proven. In spring raise the soil level so that you can plant several suitably tall Scots Pine seedlings (about 2 or 3 years old) around the trunk, just below the height where you want the new roots (top of the inverse taper). I'd suggest 7 or 9 seedlings. Let them establish for a year then, after depriving of water for about a week to reduce sap flow, with a very sharp knife, cut V grooves in the trunk vertically. The cuts must match the diameter of the seedlings when they have had the bark sliced off to make them a matching V shape. You will have to carefully remove most of the beautiful flaky bark in the area where you are about to graft. Bind the seedlings so that the cut is in intimate contact, with the cambium aligned, as far as possible. You could use grafting tape, plumbers self amalgamating tape or similar.

After another year, remove the tape and it should be obvious which ones have taken and are securely attached. Their tops can be cut off. Allow another year for the roots to establish fully, then in spring repot. Very carefully remove all the soil and then equally carefully use a sharp saw to remove the original roots and the narrow trunk section below the new grafted roots.

As I said, outside my experience, but I reckon it's worth a try with material like yours.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:05 pm

Thanks Kev. I've seen articles on Juniper grafting and they seem to use potted saplings/cuttings. Iwonder if there is a reason for this? I dont really want to carve this tree to get the taper right as the base is the same diameter as the future branches. With grafting, this could become a very powerful tree with excellent taper. I'll take another photo in the morning to try and do it justice.

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Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:39 am

Hope this gives a clearer picture of what i want to do. The wire around the trunk is roughly where i want to graft the new roots. The paper is hiding a large uninteresting branch that i will remove. The other option is just to plant it deeper to hide the fault but its a bit of a cheat.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  jrodriguez on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:38 am

Will,

There's no need for you to graft roots, considering the angle and the semi-cascade style you chose. As you can see, the inverse taper is not that evident from your chosen angle. As a matter of fact, it gives the trunk line a little diversity and movement.

Kind regards,
Jose Luis

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:24 pm

I have to disagree with Jose Luis. I think that the inverse taper is too obvious to be acceptable.

You could use a large cascade pot to bury the trunk for a few years and hope to ground layer it, eventually. Not so much cheating as taking your time to get the best result.

If you did decide to go for grafting, I think that you'd have to used saplings in plastic plant pots and attach the pots to the trunk somehow.

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Re: Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Velodog2 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:45 pm

Yeah it's not like I have experience grafting roots or airlayering pines, but I can imagine that road to be very long before you have a credible result. Especially given the overall aged feeling of the tree - it will take a long time for new rootage to catch up, if it ever does. I agree that some imaginative positioning, perhaps combined with some shari on the trunk that reduces the overall diameter could give a very satisfactory outcome. If you used the shari (and I'm not certain that you need to) it could be subtle, only reducing the diameter visually by mostly removing bark, or drastic with a general hollowing of the trunk. It could be fun.

I guess I am going on the premise that while yes, this tree has quite pronounced inverse taper, somehow it manages to not look ugly or offensive to me. There is a certain grace, or flow, hidden there that can be used.

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Root grafting Scots Pine ?

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:22 pm

I took another pic from the other side to show how bad the taper is

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