Chinese Elm dye back

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Chinese Elm dye back

Post  jake4bonsai on Tue May 28, 2013 2:40 am

Can anyone tell me if they have ever exsperianced new growth on chinese elms turning black, shriveling up, and dying back but it always back buds? Also first thing in spring it grows fine until the new branches get about 6 inches long or about a month has passed and then it starts its crap! Anyone ever heard of or exsperianced this behavior? Ill get a pic up soon. Thank You!

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  thomasj on Tue May 28, 2013 3:25 am

It sounds like you might be experiencing Black Spot, a fungus which occurs on new spring growth whenever the new tender leaves get wet too often, either by rain or by watering the crown from the top. It will move from the leaves to the branches so it must be stopped soon by using an anti fungal and by preventing any more water on the new growth until it hardens off, at which time no harm will then happen to the leaves. This was my first experience into the world of ch.elms right after I bought my first high dollar one. Scared the heck out of me because I thought for sure I was gonna lose her. A good drenching of Daconil for a few weeks and everything was good after that. Wink

thomas

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  Todd Ellis on Wed May 29, 2013 3:02 am

I have this problem too. I used a fungicide last year and the Chinese elms revolted and suffered significantly from the application; over 2/3's of their leaves dried up. I talked with a friend who works for the VA Cooperative Extension and he told me that elms to not tolerate fungicides well. So, I am faced with a dilemma. I wonder if there is a soil drench fungicide that might only do "minimal damage? Despite the fungicide's effects last year, the black spot disappeared.

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  0soyoung on Wed May 29, 2013 4:49 am

Have you ever tried NEEM oil? I've never used it for this purpose, but I just noticed that it is supposedly also a fungicide.

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  Todd Ellis on Wed May 29, 2013 12:55 pm

I think I have some; I'll try it Very Happy

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Chinese Elm dye back

Post  jake4bonsai on Thu May 30, 2013 2:17 am

Here is a pic of the problem. This occurs all over the tree on all new growth.

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Chinese Elm dye back

Post  jake4bonsai on Thu May 30, 2013 2:28 am

This is just a cutting from the original tree but this is happening on all my Chinese and native elms. This is not happening to the zelkovas or siberrian elms. Black spot huh? Makes sence. So can this be lethal or will it go away if I stop getting the foliage wet?

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:00 pm

Can this be controlled? I have half my elms, mostly Ohio natives that are browning up and dying back. It seems to be more controlled now but what I do not understand is how I have two of the Rock Elms side by side, one is exploding with healthy green growth, the other less than a few inches is imploding with ????I don't know what. I wonder if its a specific homosapien issue like accidental overdose of fertilizer to that particular tree effected. I fertilize the same proportions straight through my collection. Some trees I just apply less/more depending on my instinct of its needs. Everything is doing very well growth wise in the garden except the elms here and there.

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  coh on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:04 pm

Todd Ellis wrote:I have this problem too. I used a fungicide last year and the Chinese elms revolted and suffered significantly from the application; over 2/3's of their leaves dried up. I talked with a friend who works for the VA Cooperative Extension and he told me that elms to not tolerate fungicides well. So, I am faced with a dilemma. I wonder if there is a soil drench fungicide that might only do "minimal damage? Despite the fungicide's effects last year, the black spot disappeared.

I don't know the solution to the dieback being discussed in this thread, but I wanted to comment on the fungicide issue. I used daconil on my chinese elm for the first time this season and I haven't noticed any problems. In fact, if anything, I have less leaf yellowing/dropping than I usually see, despite the very cloudy and wet weather. I don't know if that is because of the fungicide or if I'm just learning how to grow them better.

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  tap pi lu on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:45 am

previously I had once failed with the elm. reason: more water, less light. It was dead. Currently I have 1 elm chinesse. I do it with full sunlight. It's healthy living without disease, very small leaves.pictures of crabs it I have posted in your comment "My Elm".

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  tap pi lu on Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:49 am

I understand that Elm enjoyed the sunlight

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  marcus watts on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:17 am

we now get in batches of elms 40 or so at a time and some of them (usually one or 2 per batch) have this fungal spore it seems. if the trees are left close together and watered from above it gets worse and will result in the tree defoliating itself and it will spread to other trees. Even though new buds open on the effected branches these leaves often go the same way so the best option i've found is to cut the branches right back to the last un effected leaves and regrow the branches - they grow very fast so its not a problem really.

as soon as i treated the trees differently it has become a thing of the past - spreading them out more in the best 'full sun' area we could, - ie more light and airflow, and watering them properly - evening watering is pot only not leaves but morning watering can be from above. i use this watering method with most of my broadleaf trees - they seem to like watering from above as long as the leaves get to dry off by mid morning.

my big chinese elm has been in my collection 24 years now and it has thrived all this time in full sun, no shade netting, no greenhouses or poly tunnels in winter, it is the only bonsai species i grow that i have found thrives with loam based soil mix in the pot too - john innes, akadama, perlite 2:2:1 - top layer just akadama to look nicer and to keep the perlite stable.

i have found no need to ever spray a chinese elm - just cut back effected areas hard and regrow in better conditions.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Chinese Elm dye back

Post  ScottB1 on Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:55 pm

It is fungal and must be treated right away. The tree will weaken and die from the continual cycle of back budding and defoliation. Ive lost several elms from this - the fungus appears to thrive in warm moist conditions. It won't get better on its own, but the good news is that there are several fungicides that have been quite effective for me treating this problem. Look for a chlorothalonil-based fungicide. There are several marketed brands - bravo, Daconil, fungonil. Cut back the dead branches to new green growth and mist the tree with the fungicide - make sure you really cover it. Move the tree into full sun. Repeat the spray weekly until symptoms stop appearing. Let it grow the rest of the season and next without any pinching or pruning. The problem will continue to crop up from time to time - stay on top of t and spray at the first sign of symptoms.

Good luck
Scott

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Chinese Elm dye back

Post  jake4bonsai on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:44 pm

Thank you very much to both of you! Accually when it started becoming such a problem that growth stopped completely wich was about a month ago or so I sprayed the trees with exel fungicide wich is a systemic and foliar spray both and is even supposed to control rust and the root rot fungus and also applied it as a soil drench, I moved the trees to full sun, stopped misting the foliage, and spaced them apart and I'm glad to report they are growing great with zero signs of fungal attack! I did all this just out of instinct and what I thought would work and sure enough from the avice you guys gave I was right on target and it worked. I still spray them weekly and will continue until late fall when I will apply dormant oil before putting them away for winter and will apply dormant oil two more times through winter and as new growth appears in spring I will start with the fungicide again to make sure that crap doesn't return next season! I lost all this seasons growth up until now so basicly this whole season has been for nothing as far as my elms are concered except for one and that is the zelkova bjorn and I have been working on for two years come his return this september. I kept it imediatedly away from the others and I sprayed it with fungicide and it seems fine and has grow great all season. It'll be ready for restyle upon bjorns return. Thank you all again and I'm sure this thread will help anyone should this happen to them. It worked for me!

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