Defoliation

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Re: Defoliation

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:07 pm

Neli,

you just purchase an old fridge, and use the large zone below the freezer [ the older standing fridges] and it doesn't cost much or use much electricity. Been doing it since the 80's, no sweat.

Most trees/shrubs needing a 6 week to 2 month rest [ azalea, most Japanese trees ] will slowly die after say 2 years of no rest.

Pity you are not going to Guangzhou in China.

The Japanese black pine will grow well without needing a winter's rest. Perhaps a shohin. I will say you are lucky, our plant quarantine folks would confiscate anything with a Phytosanitary certificate, and Pines are on the no-no not ever unless from seed, list.

Our low is 18 to 19 deg.C, from November to February. Cool enough to start the sleep process, but our days also grow shorter from October. So we have the start for a Winter, but not the cold to complete the dormancy requirement.
Around January's end I put the Celtis types into the fridge, until April 1st.
You guys probably go to 10 deg.C or so.
Have a great time in Japan.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Defoliation

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:10 pm

But Neli you live in Zambia....Celtis also grows there.

I have never put anything in a fridge besides Ementaller cheese and the odd chicken vienna, etc......

...but of course, I'm the novice here...


Love and light

Andre Beaurain
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Andrew Legg on Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:20 pm

Andre Beaurain wrote:But Neli you live in Zambia....Celtis also grows there.  

I have never put anything in a fridge besides Ementaller cheese and the odd chicken vienna, etc......

...but of course, I'm the novice here...


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Where the heck do you put your beer???? What a Face 

Andrew Legg
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Neli on Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:55 pm

Andre Beaurain wrote:But Neli you live in Zambia....Celtis also grows there.  

I have never put anything in a fridge besides Ementaller cheese and the odd chicken vienna, etc......

...but of course, I'm the novice here...


Love and light
Darling I bought a book of bush trees in Zambia but did not find celtis there. Have been to the bush many times...Had many of my trees imported from SA, including the celtis. But my climate is just a bit warmer than SA...We go down to 6*C and my celtis lost its leaf...but not my maples...they are budding and growing as if it is summer. Bought some maples in UK, one died one is still alive...not growing too much but now I started giving it an acid fertilizer so it looks a bit better.
Cherry, apples...and the rest grow here but never produce fruit. But no fridge treatment and they become big trees.
I have azaleas also...almost alive...and flowering.

Neli
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Neli on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:00 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Neli,

you just purchase an old fridge, and use the large zone below the freezer [ the older standing fridges] and it doesn't cost much or use much electricity. Been doing it since the 80's, no sweat.

Most trees/shrubs needing a 6 week to 2 month rest [ azalea, most Japanese trees ] will slowly die after say 2 years of no rest.

Pity you are not going to Guangzhou in China.

The Japanese black pine will grow well without needing a winter's rest. Perhaps a shohin. I will say you are lucky, our plant quarantine folks would confiscate anything with a Phytosanitary certificate, and Pines are on the no-no not ever unless from seed, list.

Our low is 18 to 19 deg.C, from November to February. Cool enough to start the sleep process, but our days also grow shorter from October. So we have the start for a Winter, but not the cold to complete the dormancy requirement.
Around January's end I put the Celtis types into the fridge, until April 1st.
You guys probably go to 10 deg.C or so.
Have a great time in Japan.
Later.
Khaimraj
Darling my trees run in the thousands...several thousands...I will need a huge cold room. Better to try and if I fail, I shall concentrate on trees that dont need fridge.
Junipers and pines grow here. I can get also pomegranate and pride of India in Japan...need to research all the tree names they sent me from there. Problem is no one writes which tree is not good for tropical climate...only which are not good for cold.

Neli
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:27 pm

Neli,

tropical is defined as no lower than 13 deg.C [ 55 deg. F ] Our lowest recorded low is 15 deg.C.

You are Sub-tropical with a low of 6 deg.c. and like Miami, -may- occasionally have frost in the heights. With frost Tamarinds and Mangoes, lose branches, but can restart.

However, the maples may still need to get to 0 deg.C for a period of time?
Maples will grow here in the shade, and with a refrigerator. I had a trident maple from 96 until last year 2012. What I did incorrectly, was [ thank you Marcus ] keep it over moist or wet. Will try again.

My Celtis are from Lafayette, Louisiana, and are accustomed to frost, little spring, high temperatures and high humidty [ 100 % way beyond what we can reach 80%,with heavy showers.]
My africana also gets the fridge, as I read about South Africa and how the celtis attempts to be evergreen on the coast, but I cannot chance that.

When you have some more experience, you will know which ones are precious to you. The numbers will drop.

Check out the more southern islands of Japan and see what they have.

Can you get a copy of this book -
http://www.amazon.com/Indoor-Bonsai-Paul-Lesniewicz/dp/B002NS6ZW4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1374071055&sr=8-2&keywords=Indoor+Bonsai+paul

and/ or this book -
http://www.amazon.com/Bonsai-Your-Home-Lesniewicz-published/dp/B008TB8QSU/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1374071105&sr=8-9&keywords=Indoor+Bonsai+paul

There is a listing of temperatures for each plant and their winter's rest.
See you later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Defoliation

Post  Neli on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:42 pm

Darling, do you have any of those books? I might try and get them but it will be hard unless I travel.
I could perhaps PM you the names of the plants they offered me so You can check for me?
C Africana does not need a fridge, and yes it does not loose its leaf in the warmer parts of SA, but it grows very well minus any fridge.
I have had that maple from the UK for 3 years now...maybe it will be OK? I have sort of neglected it, but now I am looking after it better.
I am going to check in Hiroshima area. I have some friends there, but they are a bit colder than here. I was there in late winter so I know.

Neli
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:02 pm

Neli,

since you are going to Japan.

http://www.amazon.co.jp/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?__mk_ja_JP=%E3%82%AB%E3%82%BF%E3%82%AB%E3%83%8A&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=indoor+bonsai+paul

Does this help?
Until.
Khaimraj


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Re: Defoliation

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:41 pm

Neli,

the on-line plant hardiness maps places Zambia as - -1.11 to 4.39 deg.C as your average low for winter.

Hiroshima in Japan is around - -3.9 to -9.4 deg.C

You would need to know for how long on average, the area stays at the above listed temp. in Hiroshima.

So if your low is only 6 deg.C and for short periods, say only at night in the early mornings, you might have problems with Japanese grown trees. Safer to ask the folk in Japan before purchasing anything.

Your temperature average also explains why you can have Celtis africana, growing outdoors all year round.

Please note Tropical means no chance of frost with temperatures of 13 degrees and above.
Later.
Khaimraj

* You should be able to grow Japanese Black pines easily.

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Andre Beaurain on Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:19 am

Daaaarlinggg (love it!)

From University of Pretoria Horitcultural faculty:

Distribution: Of the approximately 150 species of Celtis world-wide, only 3 species occur in South Africa, with C. africana occurring from the Cape Peninsula northwards as far north as Ethiopia.

Maybe they all have been chopped down in Zambia for the valuable wood.?Sad  ( I must say if I walk around in the forests here, Celtis is indeed a very rare sighting, exactly because of wood harvesting!!!)

We almost never get frost here in the Cape Peninsula aswell, at 8 degrees my celtis's goes yellow and loose there leaves. ( it harldy gets cooler than 6 degrees)

It is Celtis Chinensis that tend too keep its leaves through out winter here. It is also the tree that the munusipality of Cape Town plant on the pavements, as C africana needs more water, ( it tends too dry at the leave tips in mid summer and then turn brown that doesn't look appealing. C. chinensis does'nt do this.

How many trees do you have Neli?

Sorry Dear Kaimraj, that we highjack your post...Fiona wont be happy!!Smile 

Love and light

Andre Beaurain
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Re: Defoliation

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:51 am

Andre,

no sweat, keep telling all you know about your Celtis.
Much thanks.
Still looking for the images of terrazzo for you. Thanks for your patience.
Much sunrise to you.
Khaimraj

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Re: Defoliation

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