Wild material styling

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Wild material styling

Post  allofall on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:33 pm

Hello guys,
I have collected this tree may be 3 months ago, the tree is healthy as i believe. So i was thinking how i can style it, and since i couldn't come up with any idea with the current shape and tall "56 CM". i thought may be it would be more better if i air layer it as i mark in the following photos:




1 lower part -> The lower branch will become the leader and ill try to do sumo style.
2 middle part -> Have no idea for it yet.
3 upper part -> I think to let it go so wild, and leave it as much as possible, so i cant get nice and thick base.

Notes:
- This is an Oak tree.
- The tree is 56 CM / 1.9 foot
- I can see the new buds almost open. The weather start to be warm here "Sofia, Bulgaria"

I know i should make any heavy pruning in winter, but the air layering time is now. So its better to take decision now.

I would love to hear any advice from you guys, even if its styling the whole tree without air layering.

Thanks

allofall
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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Tom on Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:51 pm

Collected three months ago?
I wouldn't do anything at all to it, I'd leave it alone for at least a year to get established.

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  adam1234 on Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:04 am

Tom wrote:Collected three months ago?
I wouldn't do anything at all to it, I'd leave it alone for at least a year to get established.
or else you will weaken the tree so much and end up loosing it. Wait as Tom has advised for the tree to fully recover.


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Re: Wild material styling

Post  allofall on Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:00 am

Thank you, Tom and Adam
I'll wait then till next winter Smile

allofall
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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:13 am

I have a question for you: did you keep this tree inside (in your house) since collecting?
If so, I would be very surprised if you could call it healthy and if it would survive. And because its an oak, i can pray for its survival but i fear its allready lost then. That is, if your inside temperature is way above outside temperature.

If it is healthy and you only put it inside to take a picture, I wouldnt do anything but let it establish and grow freely for a full year.

Next year airlayer it if you want but airlayering on oaks does not work, especially the native european oaks. Maybe once in a while someones gets (very) lucky but succes rate will be lower than 5% i think.

A "sumo"-like restyle you can try, but then there is no point in collecting an oak (they take long time to establish character features) if you then remove it all and really start for scratch. That is, if I look at your collecting specimen. And i even wonder if that lower branch is viable.

good look, any way you choose to style or work it

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  allofall on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:49 pm

yves71277 wrote:I have a question for you: did you keep this tree inside (in your house) since collecting?
If so, I would be very surprised if you could call it healthy and if it would survive. And because its an oak, i can pray for its survival but i fear its allready lost then. That is, if your inside temperature is way above outside temperature.

If it is healthy and you only put it inside to take a picture, I wouldnt do anything but let it establish and grow freely for a full year.

Hello yves,
I keep it outside Smile

yves71277 wrote:
Next year airlayer it if you want but airlayering on oaks does not work, especially the native european oaks. Maybe once in a while someones gets (very) lucky but succes rate will be lower than 5% i think.

I think I'm gone try it any way since ill lose nothing if it didn't work out.

yves71277 wrote:
A "sumo"-like restyle you can try, but then there is no point in collecting an oak (they take long time to establish character features) if you then remove it all and really start for scratch. That is, if I look at your collecting specimen. And i even wonder if that lower branch is viable.
good look, any way you choose to style or work it

What do you mean by remove it all and start from scratch?


Thanks for your useful reply

allofall
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Re: Wild material styling

Post  mambo on Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:59 pm

I would not even considering air layering for at least two and preferably three years from collection.

They are hard to air layer but if you use one of the new gel type rooting hormones like Rooti!, good quality sphagnum moss and are patient, you should have success. You will increase the chances of success if you wait three years until the tree is healthy and vigorous.

Do not air layer in winter, it will not work as the tree is dormant!

Air layering on this species is carried out from mid to late spring.

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:14 pm

allofall wrote:
yves71277 wrote:I have a question for you: did you keep this tree inside (in your house) since collecting?
If so, I would be very surprised if you could call it healthy and if it would survive. And because its an oak, i can pray for its survival but i fear its allready lost then. That is, if your inside temperature is way above outside temperature.

If it is healthy and you only put it inside to take a picture, I wouldnt do anything but let it establish and grow freely for a full year.

Hello yves,
I keep it outside Smile

yves71277 wrote:
Next year airlayer it if you want but airlayering on oaks does not work, especially the native european oaks. Maybe once in a while someones gets (very) lucky but succes rate will be lower than 5% i think.

I think I'm gone try it any way since ill lose nothing if it didn't work out.

yves71277 wrote:
A "sumo"-like restyle you can try, but then there is no point in collecting an oak (they take long time to establish character features) if you then remove it all and really start for scratch. That is, if I look at your collecting specimen. And i even wonder if that lower branch is viable.
good look, any way you choose to style or work it

What do you mean by remove it all and start from scratch?


Thanks for your useful reply

aha ok, if you keep it outside, you stand a chance Smile
but if I were you, i really would not try to airlayer it !
good luck

Guest
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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:17 pm

mambo wrote:I would not even considering air layering for at least two and preferably three years from collection.

They are hard to air layer but if you use one of the new gel type rooting hormones like Rooti!, good quality sphagnum moss and are patient, you should have success. You will increase the chances of success if you wait three years until the tree is healthy and vigorous.

Do not air layer in winter, it will not work as the tree is dormant!

Air layering on this species is carried out from mid to late spring.

Hi Mambo, do you have examples of airlayered oaks with this method? I'm very interested because if that has a good succesrate I would definately consider getting more oaks

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  mambo on Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:53 pm

Hi Yves,

I personally do not have any. However, using Clonex, which is now banned from sale in Spain and Rooti! there have been discussions on Spanish forums with even hardwood cuttings of oaks rooting using these products. I have also seen an air layered cork oak that is considered practically impossible to air layer successfully carried out by the President of a local club using Rooti! He seperated the air layer after 1 year.

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:45 am

mambo wrote:Hi Yves,

I personally do not have any. However, using Clonex, which is now banned from sale in Spain and Rooti! there have been discussions on Spanish forums with even hardwood cuttings of oaks rooting using these products. I have also seen an air layered cork oak that is considered practically impossible to air layer successfully carried out by the President of a local club using Rooti! He seperated the air layer after 1 year.

Ok, so I understand from your expierence there's only 1 case of cork bark oak. That still makes it quite a rare thing then. In my previous posts i was talking about european native oaks, I should have said Quercus Robur of Petraea perhaps, in my zone.
I conclude it is still very questionable to suggest airlyairing oaks, because me too i cant / couldnt find real proven cases of airlayered oaks (with species I mentioned).
Your input got my very curious as to knowing if there are cases of Robur.
Thanks for the info

Guest
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Re: Wild material styling

Post  mambo on Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:58 am

Hi Yves,

All trials I have seen previously with cork oaks have been failures except the one I mentioned that used the Root!t gel. By all accounts Robur, Faginea etc are less difficult to air layer than cork oaks. I used Root!t to improve the roots on a Robur I own which is on permanent loan to a friend (long story). I made some wounds at the base of the trunk, squeezed some gel into the wounds and packed with sphagnum moss. 6 months later I had nice roots in 5 of the six wounds, so all indications would be that an air layer would work. I guess if you want to experiment, you could try a test on a cheap or free piece of material/seedling

At the end of January I cut an 8 inch branch off a very old tamarix. I sealed the cut and then made some wounds around the edge of the base. Same deal, Root!t and sphagnum moss. I had given up, but when I visited my trees on Friday their were buds starting to form.

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:31 pm

mambo wrote:Hi Yves,

All trials I have seen previously with cork oaks have been failures except the one I mentioned that used the Root!t gel. By all accounts Robur, Faginea etc are less difficult to air layer than cork oaks. I used Root!t to improve the roots on a Robur I own which is on permanent loan to a friend (long story). I made some wounds at the base of the trunk, squeezed some gel into the wounds and packed with sphagnum moss. 6 months later I had nice roots in 5 of the six wounds, so all indications would be that an air layer would work. I guess if you want to experiment, you could try a test on a cheap or free piece of material/seedling

At the end of January I cut an 8 inch branch off a very old tamarix. I sealed the cut and then made some wounds around the edge of the base. Same deal, Root!t and sphagnum moss. I had given up, but when I visited my trees on Friday their were buds starting to form.

hey mambo,
this is indeed interesting to know, about that Root!t. And until further notice, I think I wont try airlayering a Robur, the fact that I have not ever seen a progression series or pictures of a full documented robur airlayer still does make me to hesitant. I've googled and read up lots but found nothing. Except your Root!t experiments, but i understand this was not a complete airlayer. NEvertheless thanks for the info !

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oak air layering

Post  abcd on Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:10 am

but when I visited my trees on Friday their were buds starting to form.

It's not a proof that the tree is saved, look at the photographies ( branch cut on november 2010, photographies on April 2011).
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

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Re: Wild material styling

Post  mambo on Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:45 pm

You may be right. But I know Tamarix very well. It would be unlikely to die now.

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Re: Wild material styling

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