Imitation or representation?

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  mikebonsai on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:06 am

Off-topic from me, but Jun, absolutely stunning trees!

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:52 am

From my side, L.L.B,

as more and more of my trees mature, and I show them once, I can see no reason to show them again, or until they have grown into something different. Additionally as I get closer to the 30 trees or so that are decent bonsai, I spend more time on them and find myself getting rid of everything else.
Mind you finding new victims of untried trees / shrubs, is always exciting.

Let's not get so visual that we cease to chat, it is enjoyable to discuss ideas.

Plus, I am not sure just what one could show with this particular topic, hmm, natural design contrasted with stylized, and what ?
Better Design ? Seems like a dead horse.
Sort of Da Vinci prettier than Titian, we would soon get into intellectualism, Da Vinci appealing more the the mind and less to the heart, Titian appealing more to the emotion and less to the intellect.

Anyhow, thanks for replying and impressive trees! [ as usual ]
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  Guest on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:21 am

LLB,

You said/replied to Dick in his posted picture of a natural looking tree- "Dick another stunner, Thank you very much"

You said/replied to jun in his posted picture of trees- "You are not not a visual entertainment"--with a tone of stop posting pictures of your trees... "let's not get so visual"-------------What's with the bias?

The author of the topic asked- "Mandmade/ manicured tree vs Ramified and natural looking tree" - I believe I posted in two groups the answers which he can ponder upon, one with pictures from China of a manicured tree and then my attempts of the natural style.... All my replies in IBC are both verbal and visual, maybe it is not for you, because it seems you are not to so comfortable with visuals (?) specially coming from me. but people needs to see both, and it will also give people some sort of proof if they will believe the poster or if he/she is just another wikipedia guy...

... You said you are an oil painter, and involved in art forum, how do you guys discussed topics there with words alone. Do you believe the other guys from the other part of the world with just his words alone and not seeing his/her works. Do you take advice from guys without seeing their works? specially technical advice...just wondering LLB. because it is so common here in IBC. Wink

regards,
jun Razz


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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  Guest on Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:22 am

Thank you mike, Glad you like and enjoyed the visual entertainment...hehehe (Just being naughty again boy LLB)

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:18 pm

L.L.B,

Art forums, run on both visual and discussion. If you put up a finished work, it is art appreciation, if it is for a critique, you can get that. If it is a work in progress and you request help, it may be offered.
If work is just put up, it is rare anything other than thank you for showing will be offered.

Additionally, if you say you have rhino hide, the critiques can be harsher.

However, as we all grew to know each other, unless, the moderator specifically states it, that the topics only be art related, the discussions can go anywhere.
Oil painters spend a good deal of time with discussions on supports, pigments, binders and sometimes other tools of the trade.
Also examined are ideas on Realism and so on.

My comment to you on not being here for visual entertainment, deals with you maybe writing a book and your images becoming so well known, no one will take notice of you after a time.
I have zero problems with what you post, it is always interesting, just wish it was in 3d, as living sculpture should be seen.

Advice given, has to be factored through my own experiences. Some folk on the Art Forums are technical information wizards, but weak in ability to draw or paint and very often because of access to only poor instruction.
Same here, but to be frank there isn't that much to learn horticulturally to keep a tree healthy.
AND a good deal of what might run as new to the new folk, is very old information.
Soils for example, have been explored well before the 1980's and just has to be read up on.

So once again some folk can really grow trees, but may not be great designers. That's okay with me, many turn out to be great friends, and interesting folk to talk to.
Some are great designers but that's about it.
People are people, you learn to work with it.

Oil paintings of the imaginative realm are ideas, they can be discussed. Paintings of what is in front of you, dead on realism, border line one eye seeing [ photograph ] don't need discussion.
Bonsai for me is imaginative and ideas, tons to talk about.
Hope that clarifies.

Plus my point in all of this has been ------------ Bonsai is personal and only when you show ---and - ask for advice or opinions, does it become important with regards to the design.

Only when work is exhibited in Premium Exhibitions [ world respected ] and those with accepted opinions [ world respected ] choose to comment, can any standards be projected.
BUT that can differ or change from country to country.

AND since no one is presently 3d ing in a Bonsai Museum, in time none of this will matter and only through writing will the creators be remembered.

So where would this type of discussion really go ?????????????????
Stay well.
Khaimraj

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:29 pm

Some more naturalistic designs of bonsai.







Two distinct type of branch formation but both got a natural feel to it






regards,
jun Smile





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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  PeacefulAres on Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:16 am

Sorry I haven't replied to this thread. I just want to say that there are some truly beautiful trees being posted, and all of you should be quite proud of them.

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Re: Imitation or representation?

Post  PeacefulAres on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:26 am

I thought I'd pose one more question you guys and gals. Do you believe that all trees should have a mature look? I was thinking about this, because I often see gnarly old stumps, sprouting fresh new growth. In my opinion, this tells an interesting story. A weather old trunk with fairly juvenile branches is a sign of a tree that has experienced tremendous injury, and since begun the process of recovering. I see that as being compelling concept.

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Re: Imitation or representation?

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