Weeping Literati

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Smithy on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm

The left hand design is the one that really stands out.


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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:38 pm

The "5" rule gives me something to aim for with a Weeping Willow I acquired a couple of years ago. My goal this year is to try to plan for "negative space" in my designs; a big challenge for me at this point in my bonsai work. Enjoy your tree!
Todd

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:44 am

Todd Ellis wrote:The "5" rule gives me something to aim for with a Weeping Willow I acquired a couple of years ago. My goal this year is to try to plan for "negative space" in my designs; a big challenge for me at this point in my bonsai work. Enjoy your tree!
Todd

Weeping willow bounce bounce bounce bounce that would be fun Todd. I admire that tree species a lot. can you post the material? I'll be delighted to do sketch for you and your tree.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:47 am

Smithy wrote:The left hand design is the one that really stands out.


Thanks Smithy! I think I have to do the slab plan. the balancing act for the tall and top heavy tree is a bit of a challenge. the tree right now is tied tightly on a big rock underneath the base below ground.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:00 am


. I admire that tree species a lot. can you post the material? I'll be delighted to do sketch for you and your tree.

regards,
jun Smile [/quote]

I need to take a picture of it. It is in the ground right now prepping for a season of big growth... At least I hope it will grow well.
Todd

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  abcd on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:13 am

Hi, the problem with wiping style is not an esthetic problem, but a botanic problem, with salix, for exemple, if you don't let buds on the top of the branches, branches die, i don't know the culture technic off your species.Salix in noelanders trophy in 2012
][/URL]

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:34 am

abcd wrote:Hi, the problem with wiping style is not an esthetic problem, but a botanic problem, with salix, for exemple, if you don't let buds on the top of the branches, branches die, i don't know the culture technic off your species.Salix in noelanders trophy in 2012
][/URL]


Thanks!
Actually it is not botanical but more on technique applied. Just like everything else in bonsai, without learning the proper technique of keeping a tree in the constraint of a pot the tree will die.

...The simple technique of keeping any specie in this form (weeping) is not to bother the tree/branches for a long time, they will be touched only during styling or before a show/display. Just let the tree grow where ever/ or what ever style it wanted for most time of the year. Once you are satisfied with the major branch formation, clip and grow will sustain the design.
I have several trees posted here in weeping design and none of them are naturally weeping but all are healthy and alive up to now and I have never experienced any branch die back.
Most of the time the problem is the bonsaist not the bonsai.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:15 am

abcd,
Here are couple of tree being kept in a weeping form. None of them is naturally weeping. first one is fukien tea, (was a Mallsai)

Same technique, I am using until now.





This one is the same specie as the weeping literati.
please take note the similarity in design with your previously suggested idea...That is why I am not dismissing your idea as wrong.I am also applying it, depending on the subject. Wink




So, it is really on the designer/bonsaist and not on the botanical problem.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  abcd on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:30 pm

OK, in bonsai, you can't let the branches grow free, because , naturally, branches are growing to the sun and the light , the gravity, the weight of the branches helps the tree to weep, on a real tree, but on a bonsai tree, wiring and cutting technics are essential.


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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  abcd on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:41 pm

[/URL]
i think, is just my opinion, that your tree will be better using this wiring and cuting technics

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:58 pm

abcd wrote:[/URL]
i think, is just my opinion, that your tree will be better using this wiring and cuting technics

Thanks again! but it looks so unnatural, and very stiff and when it leaf it will looks funny ...Have you observed a real weeping tree in nature? can you post a weeping tree (any species) that has similar characteristic as the one you have in mind. even the weeping tree you admire from noelanders doesn't look the same as the design that you are proposing...One hint in weeping style, It is not stiff and rigid but graceful and more on the feminine side...Your idea of weeping tree is the opposite.

In a regular branch formation, lets say for slanting tree design, cascade tree, even in lingnan design or what ever, except in weeping form you do the one you are suggesting, longer branch on the main branch, shorter on the secondary and so on and they become shorter and shorter as it gets to the twigs...BUT in weeping style you do the opposite...observe the tree you posted from noelanders, the basic principle is the same.

>>>I don't like to do unsolicited lecture, but I want you and other folks who might think the same to observe real trees and how they behave. nature is the best teacher.

regards,
jun Smile




Last edited by jun on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:17 pm

abcd wrote:OK, in bonsai, you can't let the branches grow free, because , naturally, branches are growing to the sun and the light , the gravity, the weight of the branches helps the tree to weep, on a real tree, but on a bonsai tree, wiring and cutting technics are essential.


This is precisely the reason why most people kill bonsai, and if they manage not to kill the tree, they are stuck on what they have and never improve... more on theories, less on practice (sorry for being honest) will get you nowhere. reading books is ok but nothing can surpass a hands on practice.

Can you explain why my trees in weeping form are still alive and still in weeping form?

Don't get me wrong here, I admire the persistence you have, that is one avenue of learning. And I thank you for it, This way I can share what I have learned from few reputable teachers thru this discussion.
But do you have any personal experience in designing a tree in this form or keeping one alive? I just asked because if not, this discussion that we have here is again another classic case here in IBC between a theory against practice...and I am afraid to say with all honesty. I don't do theories.

regards,
jun Smile

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My Salix in the ground...

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:26 pm

Hi Jun,
Here is my Salix (Weeping Willow) in the ground for growing out this next year. The top died out which disturbed me until I was talking with other growers who tell me that "... the problem with Weeping Willows is that they will let some branches die for "unknown reasons". I have had this tree for three Winters and it grew well for the first two seasons, then last year major branches and the top died out. I was judicious with root pruning and keeping it in a shallow tub of water. Perhaps I kept it too wet this last year. Anyway, it is still alive and will grow well in the ground I'm sure. The bottom branch and the right middle branch are definitely alive and the roots looked good all around the tree before putting it into the ground. I bought this at an auction because of the mature bark and taper...
Height 15 inches
Root base 3 inches
Root flare 6 inches



Last edited by Todd Ellis on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Wed May 01, 2013 11:35 am

Hi IBC,

With leaves and a probable new angle.














...Any comment is welcome on the two photos above, except on this photo below (just to show how huge it is)..hehe Wink




regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  kauaibonsai on Wed May 01, 2013 9:45 pm

I like what you've done. good job, jun

best wishes, sam

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weeping literati

Post  moyogijohn on Wed May 01, 2013 10:26 pm

JUN,, Good job friend,,I like them all... take care john

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Thu May 02, 2013 8:49 am

Jun,

I have enjoyed watching this interesting tree progress from the first sideways photo, to its current guise & I have to say I really like the line the trunk now takes. The canopy no longer feels in balance now you have discovered the loop. A little more negative space within the canopy would also increase the feel of size.

Thanks for sharing the latest updates, I look forward to watching this tree mature over the coming years (one of the many benefits of forums like IBC)

Matt

Ps.. Is there a reason you feel the need to appear in photos repeatedly thruout your threads? Most members will read a thread from start to finish at least once so need no reminders once a size perspective has been given a first time.

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu May 02, 2013 12:21 pm

MattA,

my L.L.B [ long lost brother ] is of the belief that he should have at least 2 wives, and has been advertising. Laughing
He also believes in families of 10 or more children, especially lots of girls - Laughing

As usual Jun, good job!
Thanks for taking the time to post.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Thu May 02, 2013 3:59 pm

Matt,
In the first picture the tree was leafless in the recent picture it got leaves,,,thought, you might need a size reference for the leaf size. Wink hehe.

thanks BTW.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Weeping Literati

Post  Guest on Thu May 02, 2013 4:00 pm

Thanks Sam, John and LLB!

Khaimraj,
I hope my wife doesn't see your post...hehe. Mad


regards,
jun Smile Razz

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Re: Weeping Literati

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