Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

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Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  PeacefulAres on Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:54 pm

I've heard from a few different people that sphagnum moss possesses a natural rooting hormone. I was wondering if there was any truth to that.

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  I Cut too much on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:11 am

I don't think so, the only trees I know of that don't need hormone are willows. And some other random trees. The moss is just a means of keeping moisture in. I've heard stories of people just sticking cuttings in the ground and getting some roots, but there are a lot of variables to that equation, including luck.

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:54 am

there are plenty of species that dont "need" hormone, such as junipers and ficus (and of course willow)...i think mostly it depends on 3 things, probably in this order...species, health, climate...

as far as the moss goes...i have also heard that it contains "rooting properties" but as far as i can tell this is misleading as best...sphagnum does however have several properties that AID in creating an environment where roots can form...obviously, it holds moisture very very well, but beyond that, it is acidic (which is a very good thing for many species, especially ones commonly used in bonsai culture)...another important aspect of shpagnum is it's natural anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties...those 2 properties alone are probably what lead to the claims of sphagnum having some kind of special rooting properties...its not so much that it helps roots form as much as it keeps the nasties at bay long enough for the area to callous over and begin the formation of new roots...

hope that helped.

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:59 am

almost forgot...a pretty good combination for species that are fairly easy to root is soaking sphagnum in willow water and using that as your media for rooting, or mixing it with inorganic substrate at about a 50/50 ratio...i pefer the later myself...

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  PeacefulAres on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:30 am

Just Mike wrote:there are plenty of species that dont "need" hormone, such as junipers and ficus (and of course willow)...i think mostly it depends on 3 things, probably in this order...species, health, climate...

as far as the moss goes...i have also heard that it contains "rooting properties" but as far as i can tell this is misleading as best...sphagnum does however have several properties that AID in creating an environment where roots can form...obviously, it holds moisture very very well, but beyond that, it is acidic (which is a very good thing for many species, especially ones commonly used in bonsai culture)...another important aspect of shpagnum is it's natural anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties...those 2 properties alone are probably what lead to the claims of sphagnum having some kind of special rooting properties...its not so much that it helps roots form as much as it keeps the nasties at bay long enough for the area to callous over and begin the formation of new roots...

hope that helped.

I already knew that Sphagnum moss has some interesting antibacterial/fungal properties, but your post just gave me an idea. Let's say you soak your moss overnight, do you think the remaining water would contain enough of those chemicals, so that the remaining water could provide some biological protection to plants you water with it?

Also, how about soaking the moss in water containing a crushed up aspirin, instead of willow twigs?

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  drgonzo on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:39 am

It seems the horticultural discussion of willow water rolls around about every 8-10 months. As such I have reproduced a snippet or reasearch posted from one of the previous threads in which this topic was discussed with the kind permission of its author.

"There are a couple things going on chemically and horticulturally when we use willow water solutions.

Willow root tips produce fairly high amounts of IBA which is not a hormone that induces rooting but is a plant hormone that accelerates cell division. Therefore growing root tips, already growing, grow faster. 4-Indol-3 butyric acid (IBA) does not dissolve in water so that auxin wouldn't be found in our willow water anyway.

But what is produced and infused into willow water is salicylic acid and this is primarily the chemical that helps with rooting. What it does is reduces/eliminate the plants normal hormonal reactions to being wounded. When we take cuttings we injure the plant tissue at the cut end. Plants normally "wall off" damaged tissue in order to begin to repair and regrow the vascular tissues. The Salicylic acid helps keep the tissues of the cutting open and helps them retain and take up water. In short they stay fresher longer. But there is more to it.

Salicylic acid is also highly anti-viral, fungal and bacterial. So a cutting soaked in it is also inoculated with some extra degree of disease resistance. I don't think willow water itself forces rooting of cuttings but I do believe it helps the cutting produce roots by its own mechanisms faster and with greater success. "

-Jay

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  gman on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:11 am

PeacefulAres wrote:I've heard from a few different people that sphagnum moss possesses a natural rooting hormone. I was wondering if there was any truth to that.
I'll skip the willow water discussion (haven't had any experience with it) and come back to your question.....I know that many native species of conifers/deciduous in our neck of the woods do root in sphagnum moss......many of the species (including some shrubs) that inhabit these natural wetland areas ....where they've grown naturally for sometimes decades or even centuries ....have adapted mechanisms of self preservation to help them survive ....not thrive though.... in these often acidic environs.
Cheers G


Last edited by gman on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:34 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:48 am

PeacefulAres wrote:
Just Mike wrote:there are plenty of species that dont "need" hormone, such as junipers and ficus (and of course willow)...i think mostly it depends on 3 things, probably in this order...species, health, climate...

as far as the moss goes...i have also heard that it contains "rooting properties" but as far as i can tell this is misleading as best...sphagnum does however have several properties that AID in creating an environment where roots can form...obviously, it holds moisture very very well, but beyond that, it is acidic (which is a very good thing for many species, especially ones commonly used in bonsai culture)...another important aspect of shpagnum is it's natural anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties...those 2 properties alone are probably what lead to the claims of sphagnum having some kind of special rooting properties...its not so much that it helps roots form as much as it keeps the nasties at bay long enough for the area to callous over and begin the formation of new roots...

hope that helped.

I already knew that Sphagnum moss has some interesting antibacterial/fungal properties, but your post just gave me an idea. Let's say you soak your moss overnight, do you think the remaining water would contain enough of those chemicals, so that the remaining water could provide some biological protection to plants you water with it?

Also, how about soaking the moss in water containing a crushed up aspirin, instead of willow twigs?

wellll...aspirin contains synthetic iba, so maybe it would work...i guess in theory it should work...but, really...my question would by why? i mean, i use willow water just because there are quite a few where i live...so, if im trying to root a species that is easy to root and probably doesnt even need any hormone (which are really auxins, but thats a different thread), its easy and quick for me to use a little willow water...its more of a "well, it wont hurt, and probably helps" kinda mentality as opposed to "i need some hormones to get this thing to root, so i better make some willow water" mentality...for harder to root species i prefer hormex #3...so, i guess what i am saying is, with all of the rooting solutions available why even bother with crushing up aspirin and all that when you could just get some hormex or dip-n-grow or something?

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  0soyoung on Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:30 am

I'm getting very confused. My understanding is:

  • Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, not IBA

  • Hormex is IBA (Indole 3-butyric acid) an artificial form of the naturally occurring IAA (Indole 3-acetic acid), also known as auxin.
  • RootOne is NAA (1-Naphthaleneacetic acid), another artificial form of auxin.

  • Auxin as IAA does indeed induce cell elongation (leaf hardening, root growth, xylem production).
  • Auxin in all forms also induces root formation (maybe it takes an ethylene priming).

  • A stick with no buds/foliage (auxin producers) will not root, regardless of what one sticks it in.

  • It is well-established in the nursery trade that dipping cuttings in liquid solutions of IBA/NAA or dusting with auxin powders helps to initiate root primordials (initiate rooting).

  • Sphagnum is commonly used for air-layering, but it is the disruption of the (IAA) auxin flow at the girdle that drives rooting, not anything about the sphagnum. The same rooting will occur using a purely inert medium like Turface.

This is the first I've ever heard that salycilic acid induces rooting or am I misreading this thread?

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:57 am

0soyoung wrote:I'm getting very confused. My understanding is:

  • Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, not IBA

  • Hormex is IBA (Indole 3-butyric acid) an artificial form of the naturally occurring IAA (Indole 3-acetic acid), also known as auxin.
  • RootOne is NAA (1-Naphthaleneacetic acid), another artificial form of auxin.

  • Auxin as IAA does indeed induce cell elongation (leaf hardening, root growth, xylem production).
  • Auxin in all forms also induces root formation (maybe it takes an ethylene priming).

  • A stick with no buds/foliage (auxin producers) will not root, regardless of what one sticks it in.

  • It is well-established in the nursery trade that dipping cuttings in liquid solutions of IBA/NAA or dusting with auxin powders helps to initiate root primordials (initiate rooting).

  • Sphagnum is commonly used for air-layering, but it is the disruption of the (IAA) auxin flow at the girdle that drives rooting, not anything about the sphagnum. The same rooting will occur using a purely inert medium like Turface.

This is the first I've ever heard that salycilic acid induces rooting or am I misreading this thread?

you are right about the aspirin being acetylsalicylic acid (synthetic salicic acid?), that was my mistake when typing...iaa is naturally occuring, and iba was thought to be synthetic, but since then they have also found it to occur naturally as well...and no, salicic acid doesnt induce rooting, but may help with some aches and pains...willow also contains iaa, and iba...though i have read contrdictory information about iba in willow...the moss doesnt have any special rooting properties that i know of...it is just a condusive enviornment for root formation, as is turface...the moss however has other properties such as being anti-fungal and anti-bacterial...

as far as auxins caussing root formation...it was my understanding that weather roots can form or not has to do with the cell differentiation (sp?) in the plant...the introduction of auxins halts this process in the plant...so, when there is a wound (like ring barking in airlayering) and auxins are introduced (which the plant already has naturally) the cells that form (callous) are all rooting cells...this is why the addition of auxins hastens the formation of callousing, which in this case is comprised of cells capable of producing roots...since plants naturally have their own auxins, some will root easier than others...and some will root without the addition of any other auxins under the right conditions, while others may need a bit of a "boost" in order to be able to form roots...so, it can be said that "rooting hormones" aid in the callousing of the wound (which in the case of cuttings and layerings are comprised of root cells)...the actual growth of the roots i believe has to do with other factors, but the cells CAPABLE of growing roots are formed during the process of callousing due to the introduction of auxins...i think...lol...if any of that is wrong im sorry, but it sure sounded good when i was typing it.


Last edited by Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:39 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:59 am

note to self...never mention salix, salicic, or willow in a post having anything to do with roots ever again...because now even im confused.

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:43 am

With some trees/shrubs on our side, if you simply stick a small cutting in a moisture retaining soil mix, the cutting will just root.
In fact if the earth is moist and the air humid, just dropping cuttings on the ground will end up with a rooted growing plant. Been checking local trees to see just who/m [?] can do this.

With mossing, as it is called on our side, often just doing a simple air layer with no rooting compound, will end up with roots. Please note this is moss from our cocoa trees.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Rooting hormone in sphagnum moss?

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