Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

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Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  I Cut too much on Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:24 pm

So my procumbens has just begun turning a little yellowish on the foliage. I live in a very cold environment. I was told by many on here the junipers can withstand very cold temps, down into the high teens. I've been taking my tree into the garage when it gets to below that. Ive been watering sparingly just to keep the soil moist. The soil has been freezing though. Solid. Is this "no bueno" ???
This website: http://www.gardenguides.com/104893-care-bonsai-japanese-juniper-properly.html , among others, says these procumbens need to be above 40 degrees at all times.
Ill believe the enthusiasts on this site over some random site like this. Please give advice. Also, should I fertilize during winter?

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  shyu on Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:06 am

Even though they can withstand very low temps. they are in a pot and are limited to what they are able to withstand. If the soil is being frozen soil, this is very bad, should never really let it get frozen solid. It does take a lot to kill, but as you are limiting it's growth and roots within the confines of the pot, it is less likely to withstand what it is said to withstand in nature.

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  JimLewis on Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:24 pm

I have to disagree about frozen pot. My juniper -- including some small procumbens -- freeze and thaw several times each winter and do fine.

Just remember, freezing pushes the water out of the soil. That's OK when the soil is frozen, but you MUST water when it thaws.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  RKatzin on Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:22 pm

Hi, well that's a big chunk of territory, central Ore., but you are well within the zone of this tree wherever you are over there. Most listings give it a 4-9 rating, -25F to about 35F for minimal temps. Wind is a bigger factor, summer or winter they need protection from excessive wind.

Juniper are slow to react and you may be seeing the result of poor care this summer. The needles can stay green a long time after they die. It would be good to see the tree, it's not unusual for junies to turn color in the winter. Rick

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  I Cut too much on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:10 am

JimLewis wrote:I have to disagree about frozen pot. My juniper -- including some small procumbens -- freeze and thaw several times each winter and do fine.

Just remember, freezing pushes the water out of the soil. That's OK when the soil is frozen, but you MUST water when it thaws.

Well i agree, that's what I've been told. I brought it indoors over night to see if that'll help. If not its going back outside in the cold.

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  I Cut too much on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:11 am

Also, how much wind is too much?

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  RKatzin on Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:54 pm

The wind has a desiccating effect, sucks the moisture out of the tree. A tree in the ground can replace the moisture, but in a pot it can not because of the limited root mass. If the roots are damaged or cut for a repot, the tree is easily killed by the winds. How much is too much? A bit of common sense will give the answer. You have to figure in the effect whenever you do any work on a tree. When it is hot and you live in a windy area you have to make certain the tree does not dry out. More heat, more velocity, more care is needed.

You live in one of the few regions where juniper will self-propagate and grow in the wild. They're not usually out in the open though. They're up in the cuts and draws where they are out of the brunt force of the wind. Depending where you are you may not see them. I've found them on the west side of the basin, around Bend and down through Lakeview. I spent some time in the north basin, Praire City and John Day area and don't recall seeing junies in that area, but I was working and not looking for trees. Point is it should not be a big jump to keep them potted with an eye to the weather. Rick



Last edited by RKatzin on Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:56 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : sp)

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Can't see the forest for the trees!

Post  RKatzin on Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:34 pm

Hi cuts too much, The title is a joke on myself. Most of my time in E. Or. has been working reforestion projects, I'm a cutter, too, was, I don't cut so much now, but I carried a chainsaw most of my days. I traveled through and worked around forests of juniper without recognition.

I had a bit of google fun, just to refresh my well worn memory and to get a picture of the extent of juniper in E. Oregon. Some interesting tidbits:
In pure stands there's about 6 million acres of juniper forests and savana. This is predominately in Harney, Crook, and Jefferson counties on the west side of the basin and Grant on the east side, each having at least half a million acres.
The predominent species is Western Juniper (J. occindentalis), mixed with sage bush. I'd expect you could see a Rocky Mt. or Utah Juniper on occasion, birds do fly.
There's giants out there, some as big as sixteen feet in diameter, estimated to be over 2000 years old!

I have a friend from the Lakeview area who claims to have seen many gnarled old junies down on the ranch and on numerous hunting trips around the area. I'll be going over that way when the weather breaks to have a look see.

OK, the point of all this, if you're growing junies on the east side, it should be like growing Bald Cypress in Louisiana, or Ficus in the tropics, it's a natural! Getting back to what I said earlier, if you're seeing yellowing now it is likely something occured this summer to cause it. Repotted late? Overwatered, underwatered? Feeding? Late season nitrogen can cause browning of the leaves when the tree gets cold. Sunburn, windburn? So many factors to consider. How about a pic of the tree and a location? Rick

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  sunip on Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:43 pm

JimLewis wrote:I have to disagree about frozen pot. My juniper -- including some small procumbens -- freeze and thaw several times each winter and do fine.
Just remember, freezing pushes the water out of the soil. That's OK when the soil is frozen, but you MUST water when it thaws.
Hello Jim,
Because the question is about jun. procumbens nana, i wonder how cold it gets at your place?
As far as my information goes, procumbens should get only a few degrees under freezing temperatures.
A freezing wind can be a big problem indeed, best to put them out of the wind.
Sunip Wink

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  RKatzin on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:48 pm

Hi, I was refering to the nana in my first response. Most junie are listed in the same range of from zone 4 to zone 9, they are quite hardy. Bringing the tree indoors is not the thing to do. It needs to be outside, but protected. Rick

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  I Cut too much on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:19 pm

Ya. Thts what I've done. Any reason it could go in a grow container

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  RKatzin on Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:37 pm

That depends on what you have and what you want to do with it. Can't really say much more without seeing the tree.

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Just Mike on Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:48 pm

ok...so...really, your question leads to more questions than answers...as was already said, Nana's are sloooow to die...by that i mean, something could happen to it that caused it to start to die and you wont be able to notice any signs for months sometimes...so, to get a better idea of what could be going wrong, we would need to know what happened to it in the last 4-6 mnths...

about the freezing...junipers are able to withstand some pretty low temps, but, like anything else, this also depends on the health of the tree...example: if you take a tree that "should" be able to withstand freezing with no problem, and re-pot in fall and the roots don't have enough time to harden off before winter, then there is a good chance the fine new roots will be lost to freezing weather...this could kill a tee if the root work was kinda drastic

as was already pointed out, i would second cold winds as being more of a suspect than the actual temperature...and if that is the problem, the very last thing you want to do is bring it indoors...the dry air inside of a home will dry out foliage even faster...so, find a somewhat sheltered area outdoors...

another thing that i dont think was mentioned yet, but could be of importance...what kind of soil do you have it in? and were you experiencing really wet weather recently?

also, a quick note about junipers...they will sometimes shed branches to balance out energy, but in my experience, this is not nearly as common as species guides make it sound...

about fertilizing...this is another question with the "it depends" answer...in my area, i can get away with fertilizing during the winter because the winter temps in my area are barely what a normal person would call "winter" with some pretty warm days mixed in...if you are in an area that experiences freezing, then i would personally suggest against fertilizing in winter...even in my climate, i dont fertilize in winter because i have found it to be a waste for the most part...but again, this has more to do with my climate and long growing season.


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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Twisted Trees on Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:33 pm

I live in a zone 5 (Finger Lakes New York)area where temps can get to -20F (my storage area rarely gets below zero though). I keep my procumbens in complete darkness where they are out of the wind (a must) and put snow on top of the pot so that when it warms a bit they can get a little water. I do this for all my evergreens since they have leaves they can still transpire when the pot thaws. But experience will probably be your best teacher and every area seems to have it's own quirks. Good luck.

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Guest on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:26 pm

do not fertilize in winter.Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Just Mike on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:44 pm

bonsaitrimmer wrote:do not fertilize in winter.Evil or Very Mad

ummmm...this depends on several factors.

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Update!!!

Post  I Cut too much on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:22 pm

My tree is doing great. I brought it inside for weeks now and all growth has returned to blue/green. I put it outside when the temps get above freezing. I think the "low temps" you guys speak of is not as low as it gets here. Two days ago it was one degree outside. That's actually warm for this time of year. Also, a lot of ppl have told me the nana specie doesn't need a dormant period. True?

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Just Mike on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:04 pm

I Cut too much wrote:My tree is doing great. I brought it inside for weeks now and all growth has returned to blue/green. I put it outside when the temps get above freezing. I think the "low temps" you guys speak of is not as low as it gets here. Two days ago it was one degree outside. That's actually warm for this time of year. Also, a lot of ppl have told me the nana specie doesn't need a dormant period. True?

glad to hear...just be carefull not to keep it inside for long periods of time...

about the dormancy...when someone says "it doesnt need a dormant period"...i would consider that a bit misleading...in my climate they never go fully dormant, but the growth slows so much they might as well be...they are semi-dormant so to speak...so, no i guess they dont NEED a dormant period, but i also wouldnt suggest growing them like you would a tropical either...

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  Twisted Trees on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:52 pm

Did anyone mention that it is very common for these junipers to turn yellowish brown during the winter naturally only to have the color return in the spring?

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Haha

Post  I Cut too much on Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:11 am

Ha. In an odd twist of reality, I took my juniper outside the last two days, bringing it inside over night. The daytime highs have been about 28. Guess what? It's back. Within two days my tree is exhibiting the same issues as before. The two weeks I had it inside the tree has never began growing, indicative that it is still in a dormant state. It's safe to call this one, I might be new at this, but I'm no fool. My juniper will spend its nights inside on the same ledge where it's been every night for the last two weeks. Springtime, it will go back out.

Side note- zero wind this week. None. I work outside, so i would know.

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

Post  john jones on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:43 pm

I Cut too much wrote:Ha. In an odd twist of reality, I took my juniper outside the last two days, bringing it inside over night. The daytime highs have been about 28. Guess what? It's back. Within two days my tree is exhibiting the same issues as before. The two weeks I had it inside the tree has never began growing, indicative that it is still in a dormant state. It's safe to call this one, I might be new at this, but I'm no fool. My juniper will spend its nights inside on the same ledge where it's been every night for the last two weeks. Springtime, it will go back out.

Side note- zero wind this week. None. I work outside, so i would know.
So ten months later, how is your tree doing now?

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Re: Nana procumbens winter yellowing/browning. Help.

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