I have cut the needles

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I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:44 pm

Hello to All,

I wanted to see what this Japanese black pine would look like with about 3 cm needles, so I cut them.
Tree is 18 cm, and since I allowed the roots to meld together the trunk is almost 5 cm.
After the photo, I spent a little time taking off the extra buds.
I am experimenting.

In the front you can see new needles.

From seed - age - not sure have no records, maybe 8 or 10 years ?
Repot due January 2nd 2013

As usual feel free to comment yay or nay.
Later.
Khaimraj


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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  sunip on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:36 pm


yay or nay. [/quote]

Hello Khaimraj,
I got some pinus silvestris seedlings myself, as the big pines in my yard provide me each year with new ones, i have a lot of fun with them.
On your shohin; i think this is a nice progression, it feels natural to me.
However, how is the proportional relation and flow between the up going trunk and the main right branch in real?
It looks as if they have the same girth, (one going right and one going up), are we speaking of two trunks coming out of one
or will you allow a few shoots in the up going part of the trunk to thicken that part in the future to become the clear main trunk?
The part where the two separate is not so pleasant for my eye specially when in this case it forms a horizontal crossing with the same girth.
A tilting of the tree to lower the right branch would maybe an option as well as a bit more girth in the up going part?
Sunip Wink

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  marcus watts on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:43 pm

if you cut the needles to a point rather than straight across they look better if looks are important, but the cuts will all start going brown soon anyway. do you need to reduce many of the bud clusters on the tips, there seem to be lots too many, and you will get whorls of growth and thick ends to the branches if so many buds are left in place.

other than curiosity (nothing wrong with that) cutting the needles for no reason will weaken the tree a bit - if you want really short needles pull off every older needle just as the new buds are opening - that makes very short needles, i did this to experiment and it works fine, but until a tree needs very short neat needles this too weakens and stresses the tree i expect

cheers Marcus

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  sunip on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:51 pm

Hello Marcus,
If permitted Khaimraj,

I read about misting the green on a regular basis during a few weeks and putting them a bit covered from the sun to prevent needles from getting brown.
Would this work on pines as well, did you made any experience on this?
Thanks,
Sunip Wink

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:53 pm

Hello Sunip,

I have re-drawn the tree at an angle, main branch down and it needs to grow out [ as you are correct, with the branch assessment ].

This seedling sort of snuck up on me.

It also reminds me of a Chinese Ink painting and I may just go that way.
Thanks for looking and I should hopefully have it ready by next year this time for another look.
Khaimraj

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  sunip on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:00 pm

Hello Khaimraj.
Looking forward to see the lovely little-big one again in a years time.
Sunip Wink

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:02 pm

Marcus,

thanks for responding.

I removed some of the buds after I had the photo done. I am still learning, so please bear with my ignorance.
The needles are all old and I expect over the next few months, will fall, as the buds begin to needle out.

Yes, I was curious.

I promise not to do it again. I have to extend the first branch and correct the taper etc. problem.
Thanks again.
Khaimraj

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  marcus watts on Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:24 pm

haha, no dont promice - i use many trees to experiment - it is the best way to learn for real and to see what really works in your exact locationv- too many people believe old outdated books written by people who just copied someone elses old, outdated experiences.

needle cutting on a black pine is sometimes done to make a tree neat for a show, but a tree in development (like this) will be stronger and make more back buds if the old needles are left until they fall off naturally. (these needles still have one more year that the tree needs them - black pine will usually keep the newest from the buds and last years, just dropping 3 year old needles) Sometimes reducing needles at the top of the tree, but leaving them at the bottom can also balance the strength and make the growth equal throughout the tree if you find the top gets too strong and the bottom weakens.

Hi Sunip.
misting and keeping shaded keeps the cut ends greener, but the tree needs to come out into sun and be nice and dry eventually - then all the cut tips will go brown - just like when you break a needle - it always goes brown. I now avoid pointless tasks on my trees - i cut the outer leavees of an acer in half, but this is to let light to the inner leaves. Cutting pine needles only reduces the ability to photosynthesis and gain strength, but plucking some needles out completely does this on strong areas that need slowing down too, while keeping the tree looking natural.

lovely shape to the pine tho, it will be a fine tree

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Jerry Meislik on Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:50 pm

Khaimraj,
Nice little pine. Congrats.
Jerry

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:23 am

Late Reply,

thank you to Sunip, Marcus and Jerry.

Marcus, I just went through my Bonsai Today, I missed the part with year 2 of the seedling, about cutting the old needles in half, and letting the tree grow onto year 3.

So I guess my curiosity, may have been to my advantage?
I don't expect too much more out of this tree, just a little more length to the last branch, and to correct that thickness problem. Went over the drawing last night and gave a clearer view to what I expect.
May post the image at a later date.

Oh yes and in a few years short needles at 1" [ 2.5 cm ]
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  my nellie on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:02 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote: ... ...Repot due January 2nd 2013... ...
I love your precision, Khaimraj! Very Happy Why Jan. the 2nd and not the 1st or the 3rd? Very Happy Friendly chaffing

my nellie
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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:29 pm

Hello and Greetings,
Alexandra,

[ look down the page for an Olive - please ]

The 2nd is the day after all of the Holidays and no one can come up with a reason to bother me with visits, expected to them or by them.
I can settle into the pleasure of re-potting, and getting ready for the new experiences awaiting me as the trees burst back into life.[ if the rains allow to me otherwise we wait with sullen features - chuckle.]
Six or so weeks of joy!
Happy Holidays
Khaimraj

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  my nellie on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:51 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote: ... ...[ look down the page for an Olive - please ]
Cannot see it Question until now...
I wish the rains will hold back and you enjoy your bonsai endeavors.
Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you, too!

my nellie
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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Todd Ellis on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Nice tree Khaimraj. Thank you for this thread; I am learning much from you all.
Todd

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Re: I have cut the needles

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:44 pm

Well Todd,

your age is listed at 55, and the Bonsai Today articles show excellent results for Japanese black pines, from seed in 5 to 15 years. Though I figure you can easily get 1 gallon trees from Kmart or some other mall giant.
I was 50 this year and planted two packs of J.B.P seed just to continue learning.
Thanks for looking.
Khaimraj

* Even if your winter is colder than I believe, zone 6, is the J.B.P limit, as my friend says, there is always the unheated garage at 55 to 45 deg.F.
Hope that works for you.

I think we are zone 13 or 12 if that exists or even matters. 78 to 66 deg,F seems to be our max limit at night. Presently 70 at night, and 90 by day.

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