New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

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New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:49 pm

I got these trees on sunday. Any comments, style advice or virtuals are welcome. I would like the trident to be style in this sort of way:







Trident



A few views of the Shimpaku








Jake16
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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  marcus watts on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:19 pm

hi,
nice starting material.

to get the tree (trident) closer to what you are aiming for will take a very long time if it remains in the small bonsai pot. You have a nice trunk but need decent branch growth so i would pot it up a bit rather than planting out (growing in the ground is great for trunk development but too quick for branches). Let the branches grow longer say 3ft, then prune back to 2", buds will form, let 2 extend to 2ft then prune back to 2", now you have a tapering branch dividing into 2. keep on going for as many years as you like - this is the basics of 'clip and grow' method - there will be lots of info if you search it out.

the juniper i would plant out if you want a bigger tree - depends on where your tastes are regarding bonsai size

have fun, Marcus

marcus watts
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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:31 pm

Thanks Marcus,

I have a 2'x2' pot , do you think that's a good size for the trident? I like smaller trees so that size or a little bigger would be nice. I was thinking about having the soon to be jin in the front and moving the rest of the trunk down.

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  marcus watts on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:12 pm

hi Jake - yes 2'x2' will be a perfect growing on pot. you can move the tree over anytime as the roots will not be touched potting up.

next is to perfect balancing the tree energy - it will want to grow top branches thicker and lower branches will stay skinny. this is the opposite of what you need as the lowest branches want more thickness to look convincing. once the tree bursts into life and starts extending shoots cut the upper ones back more often, cut the middle ones back a little and let the lowest grow unchecked until they are 3ft ish. then you cut the top ones off, back to the trunk, shorten the middle ones to an inch or so and the lower ones to 2 inches. the process is repeated letting lower branches have more growth than upper ones - this properly tapers the trunk too.

as a small tree the juniper is a perfect semi cascade in the making, last picture, leaned over to the left, bottom branch on right becomes crown and long trunk becomes dropping section- just one idea of many tho as a young juniper can be made into any shape you want within reason

cheers


marcus watts
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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:35 pm

sounds like a plan, ill move the tree over in the spring and ill think about the semi cascade, i say think only because the junipers around me (in nurserys, lowes, etc) are ground covering junipers and they usually can only be semi cascade. Also, what is the best way to get this to bud back?

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  marcus watts on Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:41 pm

Jake16 wrote:sounds like a plan, ill move the tree over in the spring and ill think about the semi cascade, i say think only because the junipers around me (in nurserys, lowes, etc) are ground covering junipers and they usually can only be semi cascade. Also, what is the best way to get this to bud back?

hard pruning makes them bud from in the forks between branches, between branch and trunk etc but the new foliage will be juvenille needles for a while. You wont get random buds along the trunk very often but the tree has plenty of branches so i dont think you need those.

i hear what you say about the material common to you - definitely do something different then and make cascades from the common stuff.

here is a trunkline easily achieved from the material

marcus watts
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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:13 am

Nice I didnt see that angle, when I get a change im gonna do a quick virtual of my idea. Do you think I can twist this trunk to make it look more like a common juniper design?

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:56 am

Here is your idea done a littler further and my original idea. I like both, which one does everyone else like? (Also, which one is more doable?






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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:33 am

I was also wondering the best way to do all of this. With the shimpaku do I wire the trunk now to try to set the movement and let it grow out this spring, or do I let it grow then wire or leave it alone completely for a year? Do I leave the trident alone this year or put it in the bigger pot and work on the primary branches?

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  marcus watts on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:47 am

Jake16 wrote:I was also wondering the best way to do all of this. With the shimpaku do I wire the trunk now to try to set the movement and let it grow out this spring, or do I let it grow then wire or leave it alone completely for a year? Do I leave the trident alone this year or put it in the bigger pot and work on the primary branches?

hi,
trident can go in the big pot early spring at the latest, roots will grow fast and branches will take off - they need a few months growing unpruned, then cut upper and middle areas back as described above. Read up on clip and grow methods and peter teas blog posts about tridents - that will help a lot.

wire the juniper trunk now and get the movement in while it is easy to do. aim to curve and bend the trunk and avoid twisting it (as in chinese burn!) twisting can damage the tree far more than bending. let the wire get quite tight before removing it, this helps increase trunk diameter and interest.

cheers Marcus

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

Post  Jake16 on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:44 am

Im probably going with the first virtual because in scared to bend the trunk to fit the second. Smile

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Re: New Trees (Trident Maple and Shimpaku)

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