visit to Ryan Neil

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:09 pm

Lee,Ladi,

I asked the question because I would like to see what Mr.Neil, can really do.

Masahiko Kimura is a specialist in this type of work, and obviously so to will be his students.
I want to see what Mr.Neil can do as an individual.
Later.
Khaimraj


Last edited by Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : forgot Lee's name- impolite)

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  adam1234 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:44 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Lee,Ladi,

I asked the question because I would like to see what Mr.Neil, can really do.

Masahiko Kimura is a specialist in this type of work, and obviously so to will be his students.
I want to see what Mr.Neil can do as an individual.
Later.
Khaimraj

This is a joke isn't it?

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Mitch - Cedarbog on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:49 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Lee,Ladi,

I asked the question because I would like to see what Mr.Neil, can really do.

Masahiko Kimura is a specialist in this type of work, and obviously so to will be his students.
I want to see what Mr.Neil can do as an individual.
Later.
Khaimraj
????????
Jealous much?? Lol

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  GašperG on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:59 pm

I see, to some it's important; to create a tree from seed in its life,... to some; being creative with its trunk and canopy in over a few years. - none of which is wrong.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  level320 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Khaimraj,

at first sorry for laughing.....the statement of Lee was kind of funny
But what Lee said is somehow true.....you really want to see some 4 year old seedlings to judge about Ryans skills ?
me and probably you are doing seedlings or cuttings due to lack of develped material....but haven`t you seen these tremendous
amount of big game trees all around ?
in japan there are nurseries which grow raw stock material and the well known artists buy that material and make them to real bonsai.
Kimura do so as well as many others...the most well known japanese bonsai artists do so.
of course there are some exceptions, developing and refinement in the same place.
but Kimura and also Ryan are big game players....they make very good old trees much better, kind of state of the art.
again, i am sure that Ryan knows how to do seedlings and cuttings, but in my opinion for what.....except for a backup in retirement ?
and if he do them, how can you judge about his skills looking on four year old plants ?
ask Walter P. for pictures of four year old seedlings, to see his skills....i am really curious for the reply

kind regards
ladi

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Smithy on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:08 pm

Hans van Meer. wrote:
Smithy wrote:Crikey to create that in 4 yrs , i've been in my house for 6 years and still haven't decorated the bathroom.

Smithy you are lucky, I cant find mines most off the time and I lived here for 20 years! Very Happy But we both know why that is!!!! drunken cheers
Have a nice weekend!

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Laughing

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:29 pm

Ladi.

I would rather see a bad drawing by someone being honest, than a perfect copy of a Rubens.

In 4 years, someone who has mastered the growing techniques, taught to him, would show as an individual, what he could really do.
You can check out Bonsai4me with his information on growing for just 4 years.

I don't mind anyone laughing at me. I tend to have a different perspective on most things, and am not afraid to ask questions, even if they seem to be silly to the reader.

As far as big game players, Kimura has earned that right, Mr.Neil is just out of his apprenticeship. In FIne Art we suggest 3 to 5 years alone time to clear the head of the influences from the Studio.
I suspect the same goes for Bonsai apprenticeships, perhaps longer because of the tree time factor.
Additionally, one tends to return to what one did before the apprenticeship.

So I would like to see what Mr.Neil really thinks, is that so bad?
Plus, what happened to all his pre-Kimura trees, did he just get rid of his children?
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

* A seed or small cutting allows one to observe most clearly the design, without the age factor interferring.


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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  fiona on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:43 pm

When I look at those trees in Walter's photos, I'm not seeing Kimura's mini-me; I'm seeing the work of a bonsai artist in his own right.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:51 pm

GašperG wrote:I see, to some it's important; to create a tree from seed in its life,... to some; being creative with its trunk and canopy in over a few years. - none of which is wrong.

Most off us know that you are totaly right, to each his own! But I dont think that that is the problem that is playing here! It's is the underlying mesage in this question that was! But enough about that, lets all get back to the important supject of Walters pictures that show us a super talented Bonsai artist and his amazing trees who all proof that he is just that, to all who know were to look for! And from what I have heard from many, Ryan is a very nice guy as well! Talented and nice, what a guy!! Wink

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  GašperG on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:58 pm

Hans van Meer. wrote: But enough about that, lets all get back to the important supject of Walters pictures that show us a super talented Bonsai artist and his amazing trees who all proof that he is just that, to all who know were to look for! And from what I have heard from many, Ryan is a very nice guy as well! Talented and nice, what a guy!! Wink

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

cheers to that, mate.

i enjoy every peak i take Smile

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  level320 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:04 am

Khaimraj,

a bad drawing is a a bad drawing, doesn`t matter if the performer is honest.....he is not talented, that`s the problem.
a perfect copy of a rubens is still art...you have to be able to reproduce someones work perfect, that`s talent.

Walter P. put this fotos online, not Ryan....so Ryan is not commited to you/me or some other to prove his skills in doing
seedlings or cuttings......btw since when is the age factor interfering in bonsai ?

so all the well known exhibitions (kokufu, gafu, nolanders....) are doing wrong with their old trees full of age and mochikomi ?
when you visit some of these exhibitions, you also ask for some seedling work to judge the skills of the exhibitors ?

i also can`t tell you what happened with his pre Kimura trees.....but obviously Ryan learned a lot in Japan and made
a big progress...which can be very clearly seen on the fotos (see also his homepage..making of his garden ).


my big respect for creating such a beautiful garden with all these overwelming trees
Ryan put his life, education and money in bonsai ......isn`t that expressing enough?

kind regards
ladi















Last edited by level320 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad english)

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Todd Ellis on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:52 am

Well spoken Ladi. Some might say "... the more you know, the more you realize the less you know..."
I'm curious why one would state something like that then, then try to defend it with diatribe...

For this bonsai lover, Ryan's nursery is a piece of paradise; beautiful artist, beautiful art, unlimited soul ThumbsUp
Todd


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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:19 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:So I would like to see what Mr.Neil really thinks, is that so bad?

Khaimraj, I respect your opinion very much.

So with all due respect, Ryan doesn't have to tell anyone what he thinks nor did he ask anyone on this forum, (except for maybe Walter Pall) what we think about his work. Personally, I'm very glad Walter posted these pictures because it is truly wonderful to see what is being done at Bonsai Mirai. Why should he start with seedlings when his close friend Randy Knight has some of the best collected trees in the US? I think (maybe wrongly so) that most of us wouldn't start only from seedlings no matter our age. I have seedlings, and seeds in my fridge waiting to be germinated in the spring, but I'd rather start with a good base that I can build off of. Everything I've seen in these pictures makes me want to live on the west coast.

Ryan is definitely elevating bonsai in the US. We have a club member who constantly makes it a point to study with Ryan at Nature's Way in PA and he always comes back sharing new techniques and being completely re-energized about bonsai. To get this far in four years is massively inspiring.

Just one guy sharing his 2 penneth.

Have a great weekend!!!!
Sam

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  DougDT on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:50 am

Khaimraj, I've worked with Ryan in a study group a couple of times and asked about the trees he had before his apprenticeship, he said many died while he was away, but a few trees that he dearly treasures now are still with him. He discusses a few in the portfolio section of his site. I found him to be a patient, and kind teacher with a very keen eye for design. It's funny though before every bend or cut on any of my trees he ALWAYS asked "is it OK" before moving forward.
I don't really understand why start seeds when you have access to wonderful thousand year old trees. For future generations I guess.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Robert Steven on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:37 am

Wonderful collection on works.
I wish to meet him personally oneday. Thanks Walter for posting... Will meet you at Noelanders, BTW ?

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Walter Pall on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:56 am

Robert Steven wrote:Will meet you at Noelanders, BTW ?

Sure Robert,

how could I not be there? Very Happy

Ryan btw is also there as a tourist with a small American contingent.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  newzealandteatree on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:19 am

For sure Ryan is a very talented bonsai artist.
For sure Ryan is very lucky to have so many wonderful collected American Natives to work on.
For sure Kimura's influences on Ryan will be there for a long time.
For sure Ryan benefited from his time with Kimura.
For sure collecting trees from the wild affects the environment.
Beautiful bonsai need not have to be collected as the Taiwanese have shown.

Anyone disagree with me on the above ?

Cheers

CJ

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Tex Guy on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:40 am

Never feed a troll.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  kora on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:46 am

I have had the pleasure of watching Ryan on several occasions doing demonstrations in California-Golden State Bonsai Federation conventions, Bay Area Bonsai Associates(the club I belong to) Sacramento Bonsai Clubs. Ryan is with out a doubt one of the most talented demonstrator in the
US in my book the best-his apprentice ship with Kimura-san was long, arduous and accomplished. I have also had the pleasure of doing a workshop with Ryan-his demeanor, ability to teach and gently and coax is remarkeable. Some credit(I cannot say how much) should be given Randy Knight(who lives nearby Ryan)-who is one of the most amazing collectors of yamadori in the US. I admire the synergy of collector and creator. We are indeed very fortunate, that Mr. Kimura recognized Ryans ability and took him on as an apprentice, because now the art of bonsai has been elevated to a whole new level in the US. Our club visited Ryan in August-and we were all blown away. I would also like to mention, that Ryan along with Mike Hagedorn are organizing the Artisanscup of Portland next October, in Portland, Oregon. see; www.artisanscupofportland.com the first juried national exhibition of bonsai on the West coast of the US. To Walter-your next trip should be to Japan, to go to the source! Thank you for posting this post! kora


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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  newzealandteatree on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:17 am

Tex Guy wrote:Never feed a troll.

Can you enlighten me as to what you mean ?

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Robert Steven on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:19 am

Walter Pall wrote:
Robert Steven wrote:Will meet you at Noelanders, BTW ?

Sure Robert,

how could I not be there? Very Happy

Ryan btw is also there as a tourist with a small American contingent.

That's wonderful, Walter. Hope we have some time for a glass of beer... drunken

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Tony on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:59 am

newzealandteatree wrote:
Tex Guy wrote:Never feed a troll.

Can u enlighten me as to what u mean ?

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

In this instance the 'troll' is obvious... he should take his head out of his ars*

Robert, count me in on that beer buddy we must celebrate Walters Birthday on the Saturday of Noelanders drunken

BTW thanks for the great post Walter, I am sure that Ryan is too busy creating great bonsai and elevating Bonsai in the US to bother reading this post.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  fiona on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:15 am

CJ, I don't think the troll comment was addressed to you. It was also a little unfair on Khaimraj whose contributions to the forum are usually sensible. We'll allow him one aberration. Mad Wink

But then the thread is not about Khaimraj is it, but about a rather special collection of trees. For those who haven't already done so, I'd recommend a trip to the link Walter gave (HERE it is again) as it helps fill in the background and makes good reading in its own right.

It also goes a long way to addressing the question Tony raised in his latest post over in The Lounge regarding American bonsai. ( HERE). As Walter pointed out, these are American trees and not Japanese imports - another reason for me saying previously that I'm not seeing a Kimura copy here.

But for me the best thing about this thread is that one internationally renowned artist is praising and promoting the work of another. That alone is a positive thing for bonsai across the world.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:25 am

Fellahs,

please no arguments,

Ladi,

a bad drawing shows what a person can really do.
A xerox type copy shows that the person can mimic well, it is not considered much.

I am happy to hear Mr.Neil has some of his old efforts.

General comment.
A seed or small cutting requires the grower to design the effort, a found trunk, will end up with a green hat. We have quite a few guys down here who have good eyes for found material, and I am sure that goes worldwide.

I asked to see Mr.Neil's early work, because I have an interest in seeing what the guy can really do, if you guys were painters, you would understand the depth of appreciation,but your not and so these replies will constantly degenerate.

The standard of Bonsai in the US has been high since before the 1980's, just look at the publications and look to the guys/gals who used to do it.
Remember not everything you have should be measured by a Japanese or Chinese or European yardstick, the idea if it must be explained ---- is to create your own yardstick ---- and that has to be fought for.
How many will actually try to do that?
Later.
Khaimraj

* Once again - Bonsai is very simple horticulturally and designwise - please don't let someone pull the wool over your eyes, The difference between craft and Art is that Art costs more, hence the drive to -talk - craft into Art.
[ left over aspect of modernism - we call it - cleverism]

Unplugged from the topic.

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

Post  xuan le on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:07 am

Khaimaraj S wrote:
"A bad drawing shows what a person can really do
A xerox type copy shows that person can mimic well..."
Do you consider Ryan works on these trees like the work of a copy machine on a text or a picture?

BTW thanks Walter for taking time to post these breathtaking pictures

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Re: visit to Ryan Neil

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