Got a question....

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Got a question....

Post  dick benbow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:38 pm

When a customer has a tree in the hands of a business for care and something happens to it. Say a fire ensues and the bonsai is lost.
Does the business owner have a responsibility to replace that tree with something of equal or better advanced situation?

In my other hobby, Koi, if a fish is lost in the mud ponds as it is being grown, not all the time they all come out at harvest. But this risk is known and accepted by the koi's owner. The breeder raising the koi has the option to replace but it is NOT the expectation.


Was curious to see if something similar exists in both hobbies? Any direct stories?

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Re: Got a question....

Post  fiona on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:16 pm

Interesting question. One for The Lounge I think.

I should imagine in the scenario given that for most of us our first concern would be for the people whose premises went on fire rather than the trees. Then after we were assured everyone concerned was safe, it would probably be a matter for the insurance to sort out.

Other damage to trees incurred at a business of some sort would require the tree owner to establish some sort of negligence which would be difficult to prove. With living entities it is always tricky - a bit like if your pet dies while in kennels or whatever. It's also surely a bit dependent on why you'd put your tree there in the first place: if you'd given it to a business because the tree had been suffering from something, then you'd probably just accept there was a good chance that it's demise was inevitable and not the "fault" of the business.

I have no direct experience other than when someone I'd sold a tree to as a private individual demanded their money back as the tree died - a year after I sold it to them.

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Re: Got a question....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:57 pm

I think it would depend upon the circumstances, but a responsible business owner will have insurance against fire, tornados, hurricanes, theft, etc.

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Re: Got a question....

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:13 am

I would think the business owner would be thoughtful (or forethoughtful) enough to have a contract to offer the client that would spell out clearly what responsibilities and liabilities both parties would be willing to accept, as in the case of boarding trees over winter etc...

Then we sign the agreement and there we go..

As a former landlord I understand the importance of having such paperwork in place for the benefit of BOTH parties, I can imagine something similar could apply to Bonsai as well..

Definitely curious as to other opinions on this.

I have purchased trees that have died within a year after purchase, and in my opinion were in poor health at the time of sale, but as I was never offered any sort of explicit guaranty at the time of purchase I have never sought recourse for the loss. Just chocked it up to a lesson learned.

-Jay

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Re: Got a question....

Post  dick benbow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:28 am

am appreciating the comments, thanks all Smile Pls feel free to add your thoughts

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Re: Got a question....

Post  JimLewis on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:07 am

I've never understood how Home Depot (?) can put a year's guarantee on the plants they sell. (Of course I assume you have to have the receipt -- and I'd never be able to find it.)

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Re: Got a question....

Post  drgonzo on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:14 am

JimLewis wrote:I've never understood how Home Depot (?) can put a year's guarantee on the plants they sell. (Of course I assume you have to have the receipt -- and I'd never be able to find it.)

It's because they're business model is High volume - low margin. They would rather you come back to their store, even if it means replacing lost merchandise, then NOT return and go somewhere else. Because while you there at HD you might also grab a can of paint or maybe a bag of bird seed.

I've actually never had a bonsai nursery offer me a guarantee on anything I've purchased now that I think about it. But of course those folks are more High margin-low volume (except maybe for the BIG guys like Brussels) It makes sense as I think about it.

How do they know that I know what I'm doing and won't kill the tree in a week? How could you stay in business offering a full refund on a ten thousand dollar tree if the purchasers wife kills it a week later because she forgets to water it while he's away on business.

-Jay


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Re: Got a question....

Post  fiona on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:01 am

drgonzo wrote:if the purchasers wife kills it a week later because she forgets to water it while he's away on business.
Ahem! Razz Evil or Very Mad

Dunno how things are over the pond, but most bonsai nurseries here are low margin-low volume otherwise people just wouldn't buy at all. It's the private sellers who tend to have the higher mark-up in my experience and to an extent the purchaser is buying on the basis of the tree having been previously owned by a "Name". That in itself doesn't always of course indicate that the tree is in tip top condition.

IMHO it is a classic case of caveat emptor, and on the (few) occasions I have bought a tree from someone and it has subsequently died, I never once considered going looking for my money back.

As Jay says, it could just as easily have been because my husband has killed it a week later because he forgot to water it while I was away on business. Wink

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Re: Got a question....

Post  BigDave on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:56 pm

dick benbow wrote:When a customer has a tree in the hands of a business for care and something happens to it. Say a fire ensues and the bonsai is lost.
Does the business owner have a responsibility

I get all my law from TV.. LOL

I was watchin a Judge Judy :tongue:There was a case where a guy left his stuff with an aquaintence/friend and paid him a bit to store it.

So damage occoured of course, she ruled that the friend had to pay for damages, because he had accepted the responsibility and was paid.

Did it happen dick or just Chatting ?

big D

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Re: Got a question....

Post  dick benbow on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:02 pm

I love things japanese, so I'm involved with a half a dozen different hobbies. I often find what happens in one happens in another.
I lost a koi in the care of someone and the tradition is that if it can be replaced it will be but is NOT a certainty. You put the koi in this person's care only when you can accept the risk. So no trouble with Bonsai, just trying to see if they handle things the same.

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Re: Got a question....

Post  rockm on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:49 pm

"You put the koi in this person's care only when you can accept the risk."

That is pretty much my agreement with the bonsai nursery I've been boarding a large tree with for 15 years or so.

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Re: Got a question....

Post  Leo Schordje on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:03 am

Yep, the agreement I have is similar to Dick's and Rock's

I board some plants at a local greenhouse. The agreement is, they will make a good faith effort to keep them watered and cared for but if for any reason my trees or orchids are lost or die, the lost is mine. No replacement, no financial compensation. So as with Dick & Rock, you just have to trust the people you board the plants with.

Over the years I have found out what they do well with and what they don't, and these last few years this arrangement has really worked well.

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Re: Got a question....

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