Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Sakaki on Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:18 pm

I totally agree with mr Hans.

Actually, there is no professional bonsai club or artists in my country yet (some amateur groups, that's all!), so I have no club problem yet Very Happy

When I get into bonsai, it was a cool hobby for me & I learnt much about bonsai basics & horticultural knowledge from my friends who are all amateur bonsai enthusiasts. After I took some steps further, I saw that there is noone from whom I can learn something more, and then I did seek for platforms consisting of people whose knowledge & artistic level is higher, and I found IBC.
If I learn everything that I can absorb here, I will probably go one step further, I know because I have the passion...
So, I think neither a club at a snail's gallop nor someone else can stop a prospective bonsai artist if he/she has the passion in sufficient dosage.

Taner

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Tony on Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:33 pm

Sakaki wrote:Actually, there is no professional bonsai club or artists in my country yet (some amateur groups, that's all!), so I have no club problem yet Very Happy

Taner

so this means that you can start off on the right foot. Learn from the mistakes of others and stand on the shoulders of giants Cool

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Sakaki on Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:51 pm

tony wrote:
Sakaki wrote:Actually, there is no professional bonsai club or artists in my country yet (some amateur groups, that's all!), so I have no club problem yet Very Happy

Taner

so this means that you can start off on the right foot. Learn from the mistakes of others and stand on the shoulders of giants Cool

Sounds right Smile

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:04 pm

Not sure of the reasons for this or that (and I apologise if I’m “off topic”) but I do have a comment or two about encouragement and dissuasion.

It’s all about “what is” and “what isn’t”. Who should decide and why. Yes, a prize-winning 1,000 year old Elm bonsai discovered in someone’s garden way back in the most inaccessible mountain village of China is breath-taking but I’ve pretty much given up hope of ever owning one myself. So then, what can I hope to achieve?

Clubs are groups of enthusiastic individuals but it seems to me that all too often they are made up of orthodox “we know–you don’t” -ers. Perhaps I’m wrong.

Scanning the pages of bonsai interest groups a few years ago I found some guy who’d frantically contacted several groups asking about advice for turning his Catalpa into a bonsai. “No!” they all said “Get rid of it!” said several “The leaves are too big!” “It will NEVER be a bonsai!” The world of bonsai probably lost a potential enthusiast and he was denied an opportunity to "grow". Crying or Very sad

If clubs cannot tolerate a tree in a pot that is outside the parameters of “prize potential” then eventually you’ll be left with a single man/woman standing alone, looking down his/her nose.

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Tony on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:41 pm

Scion wrote:Not sure of the reasons for this or that (and I apologise if I’m “off topic”) but I do have a comment or two about encouragement and dissuasion.
If clubs cannot tolerate a tree in a pot that is outside the parameters of “prize potential” then eventually you’ll be left with a single man/woman standing alone, looking down his/her nose.

Hi Scion, this post was started by me because many CLUBS not only tolerate but actually foster "a tree in a pot that is outside the parameters of “prize potential”" as the norm within the club and actively stifle those that wish to excel.

There is room for all in clubs from the 'award winner' to the narrow minded sage, what must not happen is that creativity is considered as elitist and an attitude of 'not for us in our club' becomes the clubs 'Mission statement'

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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:30 pm

Creativity when genuine, often takes 5 to 10 years in clothing designs to become acceptable, wonder how long it takes in Bonsai ?
In oil painting History decides, what has enough universal truth in it to be of any worth over the centuries.

AND there is your problem ----------------- Bonsai can only survive the peaks of design by use of the Hologram/Holograph.

Solve that and you will have an Art form.

So says the common man, why try so hard and what for?

Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  leatherback on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:52 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Creativity when genuine, often takes 5 to 10 years in clothing designs to become acceptable, wonder how long it takes in Bonsai ?
In oil painting History decides, what has enough universal truth in it to be of any worth over the centuries.

AND there is your problem ----------------- Bonsai can only survive the peaks of design by use of the Hologram/Holograph.

Solve that and you will have an Art form.

Are you saying that any expression of creativity can only be an art form if it can be saved for centuries?

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:03 pm

Perhaps Leatherback,

what I am asking the reader is, are you able to simply enjoy a hobby, for being just a hobby, or do you have secret ambitions to being famous, whilst alive?

-Famous - can also be noticed, respected, spoken of, etc.

I am seeing the Chinese listing trees as ----- designed by ------ is that enough for the ego ?

So a club which may just be sociable, and a study group which may just be intellectual, and that's where you put your chips.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Tony on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:07 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Creativity when genuine, often takes 5 to 10 years in clothing designs to become acceptable, wonder how long it takes in Bonsai ?
In oil painting History decides, what has enough universal truth in it to be of any worth over the centuries.

AND there is your problem ----------------- Bonsai can only survive the peaks of design by use of the Hologram/Holograph.

Solve that and you will have an Art form.

So says the common man, why try so hard and what for?

Later.
Khaimraj

Keep digging Khaimraj or shall I hand you enough rope? No

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Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  my nellie on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:28 pm

May I take advantage of this thread Embarassed
tony wrote:
Sakaki wrote:Actually, there is no professional bonsai club or artists in my country yet (some amateur groups, that's all!), so I have no club problem yet Very Happy
Taner
so this means that you can start off on the right foot. Learn from the mistakes of others and stand on the shoulders of giants Cool
I have been reading carefully from the very beginning of this thread. Very interesting and enlightening too for me because bonsai in Greece is just starting. Your experience is invaluable.
But I am afraid that in some point all these are confusing me a little.... So, what do I have to learn from the mistakes of others? A-B-C Do this, Avoid that.

I am in a group (I do not use the word club on purpose) of enthusiasts, we organize workshops between us, we organize photo or tree contests, we run a forum, our next project involves a European artist as instructor/tutor to give us directions and demonstrate his techniques.
We are also looking forward to organizing a very limited "show" of our trees -be at the given level they are- BUT some of the members think we would better wait until the quality of the trees become "better". On the other hand, the rest of us believe we must communicate what bonsai is to the people and do the show for the fun of our hobby, so that we get motivation to become better next time.
What do you think/advise?
How can we start on the right foot, as Tony has said above?
On the other hand I see that a bonsai club becoming just another social club is waiting at the corner...

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:34 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Creativity when genuine, often takes 5 to 10 years in clothing designs to become acceptable, wonder how long it takes in Bonsai ?


Later.
Khaimraj

You've touched the right word all right but I'm not entirely certain that I understand how you employ it.


"ACCEPTABLE". Acceptable by what standard? By whose critical eye?

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 pm

Alexandra,

in the beginning it will most probably be pure. Then those who wish to rule will rise up and those who just love the trees will leave.

It's a repeated pattern.

Alexandra, if you wish to learn, just pop over to Italy and seek out the masters there. Then just do, and once you are comfortable, just keep on doing.
It really doesn't matter if you exhibit, and if you wish to exhibit do as in oil painting, simply have your own exhibition.
You will always have a few who will be friends. What more do you need?

This is how I have done for years, and for me it is enough. I had an open house about 2 years ago, many came, got freebees and we had a good time. Started at 10 a.m. and didn't end until way into the night.
I will probably do so in another 3 or so years.

I go to the Society's shows, when I can, it is enjoyable, being a stranger at an exhibition.
A few still know or remember me and I get asked a lot of questions, which I pass onto the society's members.
Best to you.
Khaimraj

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:14 pm

Alexandra, if you wish to learn, just pop over to Italy and seek out the masters there.

Oh, I hope you didn't mean that . . . .

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:17 pm

You lost me Jim.
I thought from all the names I have seen coming out of Italy, that they had a strong situation there?
Alexandra is in Greece.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Why most Bonsai clubs in the UK are struggling for members?

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