Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

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Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:05 am

Okay, so I can successfully grow Japanese black pines in the tropics in full sun.

Our temperature range - 70F [ 22 C ] to 92 deg.F [ 33 C ] and the 70 part is more seen around October to February/March.

Seeds germinate after 10 days of planting a sterile freely draining medium. I don't know if they are kept in cold storage before being sold. I have planted immediately upon getting the seed packs through the mail [ seeds are soaked in water for 24 hrs mind you.] and also done the 3 months in the vegetable crisper in the fridge, no difference.

Seeds come up and are left alone to grow in full sun for about 1 year and then transplanted into larger 4" [10 cm ] earthenware clay pots and after that grown on. See instructions in the early Bonsai Today magazines.

So, technically if you give the above conditions, you folk should, if you want to, grow Japanese black pines indoors.

I hope to see some already doing this or trying.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:28 pm

Well, I wouldn't bet too much money on the likelihood of success.

Aside from the light intensity (including UV light) and duration over the years, there are too many differences between in- and outside.

But then, I'm of the school that believes that if Ma Nature had intended for trees to grow indoors, She would have put them there.

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:40 pm

Not meaning to stir anything.

what about windows that project off of the house and get East until 12 a.m./ or is that p.m. and then bright light or variations that allow for sunlight?

L.E.D.s or other as grow lights ?

Does anyone try anymore or just give up from the onset ?
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  fiona on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:12 pm

In my case it wouldn't be a case of giving up as just simply not seeing the point of cluttering up my already overcrowded indoors with trees for which I have pretty good growing conditions outdoors.

But, good luck to those who wish to do otherwise, or who simply don't have an outdoors.

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:18 pm

I think the glass in the windows pretty much cuts off the UV spectrum. I can't really say if a grow light fills that need well enough for a temperate zone plant like a pine.

Again, though, light isn't the only benefit of growing outside.

But as Fi says, if it's your only option -- or if you simply like to experiment -- have at it.

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  coh on Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:06 pm

Khaimraj,

Are you familiar with the article by Jack Wikle, who has been growing many species indoors under lights for years? It can be found at http://www.fukubonsai.com/2b2a2a.html

He claims success with many species normally thought to require outdoor conditions, including cotoneaster, pyracantha, and junipers. Here's a snippet from his article:

"Now, how about needle evergreens as fluorescent light bonsai? I have heard again and again that junipers (Juniperus spp.) cannot be grown indoors for any length of time. I know that even if I swear here that my two oldest indoor junipers have grown inside under cool white fluorescent light for 21 and 19 years respectively with no outdoor vacations, there will be those who read this and continue to assure their friends that it cannot be done. Admittedly juniper growth is slow under fluorescent light, but they survive and are healthy."

He goes on to comment about pines:

"Now, some kinds tried indoors which lived for a while but gradually declined, seeming to need a cold dormant period and/or changing day length, must be noted here too. They are pines (Pinus spp.), maples (Acer spp.), quince (Chaenomeles spp.) and spirea (Spiraea spp.)."

Edit to add - I'm experimenting with a nana juniper, it wasn't doing well this summer so I've decided to keep it indoors with my tropicals (under metal halide lighting) to see if I can strengthen it. Ultimately I'd like to keep it with my other temperate trees, though.


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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:09 pm

Well Chris,

it must the changing of the day length. We go from light [ no sunlight in the last 15 or so minutes of the day's end ] until almost 6.45 p.m. at the height of summer to 5.45 p.m. or so [ really have to actually check that time this evening ]
as winter comes on.

I am curious as I may one day make a cold room just grow a white pine or too. I accidentally got one to sprout years ago and after two years a caterpillar got it.
[ Must be the same type that last week tried to eat my newly germinated Japanese black pines, and the monster [ Mothra] that defoliated my Fustic -------- threw him into the bamboo hedge, go choke on that hmmph.]

If I may boast, my Gingko is doing just fine --- since 94 or 96, can't remember which year I brought it home from London.

I will have to re-do the maple, since my Trident of 96, kicked the bucket this year, not sure why?
The Celtis are still growing the trough, getting closer to the 3" [ 8 cm ] trunks I want.

Ms. Iris suggested I refrigerate my junipers and I did that last year, worked, vegetable crisper for two months, no light.
They stayed green and I saw no weakening this year.
The lady is a genius.

Well I have L.E.D. growlights - I will give a few Japanese black pines a test drive see what happens, let the group know.
Later.
Khaimraj

* Yes, I knew about the Jack Wikle article, it is also in one of the Indoor Bonsai Books by BBG, but thank you.

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:34 pm

I live in an apartment on the seven floors with window facing east, getting direct sunlight from 7.00am till 12.30pm in tropical Malaysia, temperature at noon 32 Celsius and night 25 Celsius. I have 2 black pines kept about 3 years, and a few other black pines about 1 to 2 years. I also have a white pine (Taiwan five needle pine) more than 1 1/2 years.
I do admit that I do kill a few black pines at the initial stage due to lack of information, but for the last two years my pines are still growing.
All my pines are from nursery stock, imported from China or Taiwan.


Last edited by Chiang Cheng Kooi on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:33 pm

This pine had undergo training for about 3 years in my apartment, it is from nursery seedling, height of pot is about 5 inches,
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/431859_538235526214699_1577962486_n.jpg

All the pines are black pine except the third pine from right is a Taiwan Five Needle White Pine.
All the pines are train from nursery stock seedling except the second from left.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/377824_483955894975996_546515308_n.jpg

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:32 am

Chiang Cheng Kooi,

it is great to see more examples of J.B.Pines [ and a White Pine - wow - impressive] in the tropics. Please don't be a stranger, come by and leave as much information as you can, for other folk in the tropics.
Thanks.
Khaimraj

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Chiang Cheng Kooi on Thu May 02, 2013 5:13 am

Khaimraj S

Got this Taiwan white pine from an owner from our local nursery, it is actualy his personal collection, he got in from Taiwan n had kept it for a few years. It looks in sorry state.
Not taking any chances i do minimum pruning n make the best out of it. It is very rare to encounter white pine here.
The potting mix had good drainage, I use 50% black lava soil + 30% pinus caribaea bark + 20% burn soil.

After 1 1/2 year the tree seem to recover.
There are actualy a few type of white pine grow near the tropical belt in Asia, example Taiwan white pine, Yunnan white pine, Hainan white pine and Vietnam white pine. However Taiwan white pine also grows at lowwer altitude.



[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=71&u=16974033][/url

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Re: Japanse Black Pine as an indoor Bonsai?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu May 02, 2013 12:13 pm

Chiang Cheng Kooi,

hey, thanks for writing. You mentioned Pinus caribaea bark, so you would know about the Caribbean and Honduran pines. The hybrid is easily grown over here for lumber at any elevation, you just need sandy or very porous soil.
I have a friend who is doing work with the tree, and it responds to the same treatment as a J.b.pine, but candles all year round, so it more like a normal tropical tree.

Work on leaf reduction [ 20 to 15 cm lengths ] is only just being tried. Bark is also very beautiful.

You may wish to get some seed and try it. Additionally, due to some strange nature of the Caribbean zone, pines actually evolved to grow at low elevations. All of the work on these pines has been for lumber, so the trait bred in is to be top dominant.
I am trying to get some seed that is more normal as branching goes.
However, the mature trees here and there, do have beautiful branches.

A long way of saying, you might not have to fight so hard to grow pines, other than J.b.pines.
Wishing you all the best with the White pines.
Later.
Khaimraj


A mature hybrid [ Caribbean / Honduran ] we have a few around the island.


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