Acacia Wanted

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Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:36 pm

I have to grow a few trees from Israel or their relatives. I have given up on cypress, because they get cypress scale, which is incurable. I would like to try acacia again, but the one usually sold is sweet acacia, Vachellia farnesiana. I grew them for years, but they all died on me. They are not tropical, but I suspect my winter location was too cold. Is there a trick to growing them that I don't know about?
I have seen other acacias as bonsai, but I don't know where to find them. Wigert has a bullhorn acacia, but the thorns look too African. Any other suggestions? scratch
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  drgonzo on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:51 pm

Hi Iris

Get hold of Hank, he has the genuine article. His stock was grown from seed he brought back from Africa.
http://www.tandamiti.com/

I have had great success working with an Acacia burkei forest that I picked up from him at the Rochester show last June.. very vigorous and nice to work with. Though they are very thorny and wiring them is like wiring a raspberry bush! the thorns are actualy rather small and are visually innocuous if that concerns you. Luckily they respond well to clip and grow.

In winter they must be allowed to run very much on the dry side and must come indoors...

Best
-Jay

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Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:37 am

Thanks. Unlike cats, you are allowed to show bonsai declawed.
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:33 am

Thanks Jay. I may have to just pick up an acacia from him.

Do they require dormancy?

Have a great weekend!!!!
Sam

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Eastern Bonsai on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:48 am

Hello Iris,
I have also picked up several from Hank at www.tandamiti.com and have had no problem with them for the past 4 years. Outdoors in the summer and indoors (or greenhouse) in the winter.
Abe

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  drgonzo on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:57 am

Hey Sam

Hank is definitely the guy to see with regards Acacia. Treat it just like your Raintree, Their seasonal care both winter and summer is very similar..... maybe let it run a bit on the drier side.

Best, and congratulations..
-Jay

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  milehigh_7 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:37 am

This is a video of my A. smallii they are nearly identical to A. farnesiana. Both are commonly called 'sweet acacia'. The main difference is that smallii is more cold hardy (tolerates high 20's) where as farnesiana is down right sensitive under 32F. This one has a caliper of a bit over 3". It has pretty nice roots cost and $20.



They do like it on the dry side and you can't get them too hot.

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How about an olive?

Post  milehigh_7 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:08 am

Ever considered an olive, almond, pomegranate or a nice Quercus ilex? All extensively mentioned in the Tanach.

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How About an Olive?

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:11 pm

milehigh_7 wrote:Ever considered an olive, almond, pomegranate or a nice Quercus ilex? All extensively mentioned in the Tanach.
If you are interested in this subject, be sure to read Nature in our Biblical Heritage and Tree and Shrub in our Biblical Heritage by Nogah Hareuveni. They really got me into bonsai.
As for the other trees:
I had a beautiful Little Ollie (the dwarf Olea europaea), but I got careless with dampness in the pot. It died a slow, agonizing death from verticillium. I will get another one if I find it.
I tried an almond once, but they are susceptible to crown gall, which is very contagious.
I have killed many pomegranates, but I have one now that is doing well. Winter care is tricky.
There are two live oaks mentioned in the Bible. They are grown for bonsai in Israel. I wouldn't begin to know where to get them. I don't think I have ever seen any successful oak bonsai around here.
I have had mixed success with Myrtle and plan to try it again.
I even tried citron. They are hard to grow & incredibly ugly.
I do have a pygmy date palm, but not everyone considers it a bonsai.
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Andrew Legg on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:30 pm

milehigh_7 wrote:This is a video of my A. smallii they are nearly identical to A. farnesiana. Both are commonly called 'sweet acacia'. The main difference is that smallii is more cold hardy (tolerates high 20's) where as farnesiana is down right sensitive under 32F. This one has a caliper of a bit over 3". It has pretty nice roots cost and $20.

They do like it on the dry side and you can't get them too hot.

Milehigh,

Acacias will close up their leaves if they get too hot. My experience here in South Africa is that they are happier is they don't get too hot. For some reason their growth in a pot seems different to that in the wild.

Cheers,

Andrew

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Acacia thorns

Post  Robert Taylor on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:39 am

Do not declaw! If I remember correctly Hank Miller mentioned to me that the new growth on Acacias starts at the thorn location.

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  drgonzo on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:11 am

Robert Taylor wrote:Do not declaw! If I remember correctly Hank Miller mentioned to me that the new growth on Acacias starts at the thorn location.

Hank pointed that out to me as well, however I think you could just snip off the tips if you wanted to make them a little less of a pain to wire..but really wheres the fun in that?

-Jay

PS They'll let you go in, but with those recurved thorns, they grab you one the way back out.

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:38 am

Good luck with your new acacia.
I can not give U any advise, just to let you know that here in Africa, acacia grow in dry places, dont get any water from march to november.
I have seen people recommend pomygranate. I have some dwarf ones, over 15 year old ones in the garden...
I am going to try dig one.

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  milehigh_7 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:29 am

A. smallii is not an African native but rather Southern US and Mexico. It does however close it's leaves at night or under stress. Here in Las Vegas where I live we are very frequently over 46C and 3-5% humidity. Lovely place to try and grow trees... Anyway they grow like mad nearly impossible to slow down.


I am doing some additional research but the "Oaks of Bashan" are thought to be Q. Ilex and do make lovely bonsai.

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  BigDave on Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:15 pm

milehigh_7 wrote: Anyway they grow like mad nearly impossible to slow down.


M-High,
Agree. Funny how one persons want/need is anothers hate/weed/. I spray round up on tons of acacia seedlings each year, if not I would be choked by them... Shocked

Dear Iris, I can give you another olive if you are ready to try again.


Have you tried Ceder of Lebanon...Cedrus libani ? Very awesome bonsai material

http://www.treesofjoy.com/content/cedar-lebanon

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:21 am

[/quote]M-High,
I can give you another olive if you are ready to try again. [/quote]
That is very kind of you. Olea europaea? I will pay for shipping.

[/quote]M-High,
Have you tried Ceder of Lebanon...Cedrus libani ? Very awesome bonsai material

http://www.treesofjoy.com/content/cedar-lebanon[/quote]

Had one for several years. (sigh) It died mysteriously. I suspect it was a soil problem. I use coarser soil with conifers these days.
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  BigDave on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:05 am

bonsaisr wrote:
That is very kind of you. Olea europaea?
Yes indeed and happy to do so, always want to encourage the young folks... bounce

-Big D

ps. email or use contact form on Website when you are ready

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Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:14 pm

Once again, Superhelpful Hank rode in from the West to help a damsel in distress (see Shohin Stand). He brought a clump of A. galpinii to the Rochester meeting. Here it is. The pot is 14 inches, about 35.5 cm.



I suspect the whole clump will not fit in my lace rock, so I will use three of them. When you have a group planting, it is always good to keep an extra. Hank warned me that you can't plant them closer together, because they grow too fast. They are all the same age, so except for the main tree, the rest are all about the same size. I will have to finagle the pruning to encourage one to grow fatter & another one to stay smaller.
Hank warned me about how the thorns grow, but I managed to snip most of the thorns.
Hank suggested A. galpinii is a little better for group planting than A. burkei.
If anyone has grown this species under lights, please tell me.
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:46 pm

Darling,
They look so cute! Wish You all the best with them and post lots of pictures.

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  drgonzo on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:22 pm

Hoooray!

I'm glad you two were able to connect.

-Jay

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  Sakaki on Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:40 pm

bonsaisr wrote:Once again, Superhelpful Hank rode in from the West to help a damsel in distress (see Shohin Stand). He brought a clump of A. galpinii to the Rochester meeting. Here it is. The pot is 14 inches, about 35.5 cm.



I suspect the whole clump will not fit in my lace rock, so I will use three of them. When you have a group planting, it is always good to keep an extra. Hank warned me that you can't plant them closer together, because they grow too fast. They are all the same age, so except for the main tree, the rest are all about the same size. I will have to finagle the pruning to encourage one to grow fatter & another one to stay smaller.
Hank warned me about how the thorns grow, but I managed to snip most of the thorns.
Hank suggested A. galpinii is a little better for group planting than A. burkei.
If anyone has grown this species under lights, please tell me.
Iris

Hi Iris,

Glad to see that you attained your acacia.
Waiting for your progression photos!

Taner

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Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:31 pm

Grr. I was writing a whole megilla & accidentally pressed the wrong button. Like that's never happened to you. Hope I remember everything.
My clump gradually came out of dormancy and is growing happily under the lights. Under my conditions it only gets watered about once a week. Nothing to take a picture of yet.
Have you noticed? The acacias probably originated near the Equator & are impervious to changes in day length. At least the ones I have grown close up shop starting at 7 PM, outdoors in the summer & indoors under lights (I keep the plant room at 18 hours). With a fast growing species like Monkey-thorn, it is probably just as well. I have never gotten up early enough to see when they open for business.
Now for the bad news. Twisted Evil
The genus Acacia was recently balkanized into five independent republics. You can read the whole report here. http://www.sanparks.org/parks/kruger/conservation/scientific/noticeboard/science_network_meeting_2008/Thursday/van_der_bank2.pdf
My monkey-thorn is now Senegalia galpinii. Black monkey-thorn is Senegalia burkei. Sweet acacia is Vachellia farnesiana. Twisted acacia is Vachellia tortilis subsp. raddiana. Only the species from Australia have been relegated to Acacia. Don't shoot the messenger.
Iris
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  milehigh_7 on Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:32 pm

lol they seem to have missed smallii... what a burden to be responsible for all this stuff!

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Acacia Wanted

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:12 pm

Acacia smallii is a synonym. The correct name is Vachellia farnesiana var. farnesiana. You noticed the similarity. They are just two varieties of the same species.
I am not responsible for any of this.
Iris

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Re: Acacia Wanted

Post  drgonzo on Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:43 am

bonsaisr wrote: Only the species from Australia have been relegated to Acacia. Don't shoot the messenger.
Iris
Iris

This whole thing has become shockingly political. With Australia wishing to claim the only true Acacia's. We are forced, to deal with this "politics trumping taxonomy" problem for the time being.......

-Jay

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Re: Acacia Wanted

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