grafted pine

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grafted pine

Post  peter keane on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:15 pm

I started this graft project in 2007 with approaching scots pine to ponderosa pine. This past weekend, I gave the lower branch an initial styling (as it was strong enough to withstand bending). The arrows in the second image show my choices of direction for the foliage. The third is a virtual of how I see the final design (although it was a cut and paste of black pine foliage from someone else's tree).






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Re: grafted pine

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:10 am

Hi Peter.

Why the opposite side? IMHO it will look more cohesive if designed moving to the right side.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: grafted pine

Post  Todd Ellis on Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:08 am

I agree with Jun. I think you will have a better result if you let both branches develop with nice pads/crowns ... then decide if one needs to go. Great cascade!

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Re: grafted pine

Post  Jason Eider on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:01 am

Thanks for sharing Peter. Looks great.
You said you used approach grafts? Was just wondering about the process, how to manage the position and stability of the doner tree/ trees?? before the grafts took? Have you had better success w/ approach from a different tree vs. bud grafts?


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Re: grafted pine

Post  Guest on Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:04 pm

I like your pine a lot Peter.

Some time ago I was watching a Ryan Neil demo on a thick white pine in a semi-cascade style, and I remember one of his design principles that has stuck with me since is that you can make a tree look more powerful and old when you pull the foliage closer to the trunk-base. Around the same time he also talked about the movement and sense of direction of the branches that should compliment the overall movement of the trunk (I am sure there will be exceptions to the rule).

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Re: grafted pine

Post  peter keane on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:22 pm

Great questions and observations. I'm choosing this direction for the foliage to give a more compact design, and stronger feeling of visual stability than if the foliage were going towards the right. If I were to have the tree continue towards the right, I'd have to balance it with a pot (such as a crescent). I'd rather have the balance within the tree itself.... Smile

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Re: grafted pine

Post  peter keane on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:42 pm

Jmek wrote:Thanks for sharing Peter. Looks great.
You said you used approach grafts? Was just wondering about the process, how to manage the position and stability of the doner tree/ trees?? before the grafts took? Have you had better success w/ approach from a different tree vs. bud grafts?


I've been grafting for bonsai for a few years now. Before starting this project, I researched the compatibility of grafting scots pine to ponderosa pine without any results. As this would be a first, I used approach grafting rather than bud grafting. With the approach method, it's more reliable, but leaves an ugly stub that you have to hide.

Here are some images of the approaching method I used for this project. You can see how the graft union is secured until the scion takes. I've made a box to hold both, the donor plant and the ponderosa in close proximity. Each graft union took a year for success. Sometimes, it can take up to two years. If the graft area shows signs of callusing after a year, I'll start to wean the scion from it's supply by cutting a third of the branch. I'll do this once a month starting in April. When the scion is now dependent on the ponderosa, I'll move the plant to semi-shade until late August. I won't do any needle removal or wiring for a few years, when there are a few layers of wood at the graft union.







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Re: grafted pine

Post  Jason Eider on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:00 am

Thanks very much for the info Peter. I plan to try my hand at grafting jbp to ponderosa next spring.

Jason

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Re: grafted pine

Post  Herbert A on Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Hi Peter,
this is a very informative thread. Thank you for posting.

I have made this technique on larches. But i use one year old sprouts and make a cut with a saw. By using young sprouts the graft union fuses very nice. After one or two years there is no grafting union to see.

This year in spring i tryed the technique on pinus mugo with strong an thicker sprouts (diameter of a cigarette). But i think the grafting union is not as good as using young an thiner sprouts.

Now my question:
Did you ever use young sprouts bei grafting a pine and if you did, how was the result?

regards
Herbert Aigner

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Re: grafted pine

Post  peter keane on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:43 am

Herbert

you make a good observation about young and older shoots. With younger shoots, they will callus quicker, and be less likely to have graft mark - if both trees are the same variety. in my pine project, the scion wood is scots pine, which grows faster than ponderosa pine. This has caused a bump at the graft union - even with the younger shoot (having the red zip tie). I'll have to devise a way to disguise the bump.

I find that with all of my approach grafts, I've had some visible scarring at the graft union. I don't know if other enthusiasts have similar experiences. When planning a graft using the approach method, it's a good idea to plan the surgery where the union will not be easy to spot in the future. With bud, or side-veneer grafting, I'm less likely to get a bump, if both plants have similar growth rates. Bud grafting is a much cleaner look than with approach grafting (which is why I prefer it).

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Re: grafted pine

Post  peter keane on Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:15 am

Here's an example of another approach graft.  The stock plant is ponderosa pine and the scion is japanese red pine (pinus densiflora).  The red pine shoot is two years old.  Both, the ponderosa and red pine shoots were approximately the same thickness.  I joined the two parts in May of this year.  The second picture was taken earlier this month.  you can see callus forming between the two shoots.  In time, the red pine part of the union is going to be thicker than the ponderosa because of its growth rate.  I could have made the ponderosa shoot or the red pine shoot much thinner to make the end result less bulky in appearance.  But, that would have put the viability of the shoot at risk.  When i re-taped the union, I did not tie with aluminum wire so it would grow out.  



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Re: grafted pine

Post  Herbert A on Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:03 am

Peter, thank you for your information.

regards
Herbert Aigner

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