Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

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Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:36 pm

hello,

may i ask if someone recognizes the following potmakers...pots should be japanese.
sorry for the poor picture quality......and thanks a lot in advance for your time and patience

kind regards
ladi




Last edited by level320 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:09 am

The second one is Hokido, older Tokoname, and upside down. I recognize the first, n
But I can't place it with a name off the top of my head, have to dig around a little.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:24 am

Hello Ryan,

Thank You very much for Your fast reply.......the second one seems to be really older due to the patina, also the seller in japan
said something about, but that`s years ago.....and i didn`t care about this at that moment (also i didn`t understod really)
The first pot with the hanko looks also like quality work, very smooth and thin walls (doesn`t look smooth on the pic,
but the hanko is pictured with makro due to very small, located on the side of the pot, 3-4 mm high)

Kind regards from Austria

ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:40 am

Think you could post a picture of the pot? Might make it easier.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:28 am


you are right Ryan...i will do, but for this i have to visit a friend with better equipment, also i should clean the pot before.
may i be so free and put in another few pots for identification ?

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:31 am

Sure, why not. I'm not promising anything though. Perhaps you should check out the database on my website: maybe you can identify some on your own!
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/
Head to the menu and the "Chop, seal and signature database"

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:36 am


thanks ryan.....i know your website well (who doesn`t) Very Happy
on your site i found a chop from a small blue white porcelain pot (kyoto ware, Sensui was the maker, a small chop with a T inside and some other signs).
i will post some fotos when ready...perhaps we are lucky.

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Andrew Legg on Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:40 am

level320 wrote:
you are right Ryan...i will do, but for this i have to visit a friend with better equipment, also i should clean the pot before.
may i be so free and put in another few pots for identification ?

kind regards
ladi

Hey Ladi,

Be very careful not to clean off the patina!!! Shocked It will significantly reduce the value and visual appeal of the pots!

Cheers,

Andrew

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:30 am


hello Andrew,

thanks for your advise.......but don`t worry.
i will clean them with warm water and cloth/sponge and apply a thin layer of camelia oil.
the first unknown pot has very less patina, most dirt....but the second (hokido) has plenty of it, what i will for shure keep on the pot Very Happy

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:36 pm

hello again,

we made some pictures, maybe we can also identify something of it....
thanks in advance for your time and patience

1.start with a better picture of the 1st unknown pot


2.the second pot ryan identified as older tokoname by hokido....a picture of the whole pot



3.ok, now some other pots.....maybe i`m lucky and figure somethimg out with your help



4.this one i like very much, made of porcelain



5.small porcelain pot, kyoto




6.nice quice pot



7.small landscape pot



8.a bigger cloud feet pot



9.old looking oval pot



10.nice green glaze



11.rectangle pot



12.probably not worth the picture,...but with hanko, thin-walled and smooth surface



kind regards
ladi



Last edited by level320 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:38 pm

1. Probably Kyokusei
2. Hokido(this is very early work from the clay quality and color, and signature, 50 years old give or take.)
3. Modern Chinese(see 10)
4. Kutani
5. Kyo-yaki(a region not a style), maker is "Setsuzan"
6. Modern Chinese
7. ?, unsure, looks like hobby work
8. ?, unsure, dont recognize this seal or chop offhand, will place no judgements
9. Kaiyou, Tokoname
10. Modern Chinese?(pretty sure, but not %100, maybe 90. When I say "Modern Chinese" as opposed to "cheap production grade Chinese crap" what I mean is, these pots are Chinese high fired production pots, the "higher grade" that is referred to often by defenders of Chinese quality as "the best being sold to Japan". These are the sale pots that you see average to decent bonsai for sale in from Nurseries in Japan...though pretty and of decent quality(I can count 17 flaws in these pots I've labelled such, not collectors pieces or show quality, but they look nice on the benches and theres no problem when the wind tosses one south!), they're cheap as chips! Around 1-3,000¥ depending on size, 12-40$.)
11. Modern Chinese?
12. Tokoname, production grade, the maker is on my site can't remember name
These are all off the cuff IDs, though I know for a fact 1/2 these are on the site, so I'm pretty solid on them all.


Last edited by Ryan B on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Extra info)

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  JimLewis on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:05 pm

That red pot is a true gem!

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 3:47 pm

thank you ryan for your afford,

but excuse me to ask again.... i am not shure if i get you right.

1. the round one is kyokusei
2. rakkan pot is hokido
3. white is chinese
4. red/gold porcelain is kutani (style/place where made )
5. blue/white is kyo-yaki (style not maker)
6. quince pot ?
7. landscape ?
8. cloud feet ? (kaiyou is next )
9. kaiyou hanko is upside down (acc. your site)
10. green glaze is chinese
11. red/brown rectangle is tokoname (i can find the chop on your site)
12. gray/brown rectangle ?

thanks jim.....i also like it very much, its probably a mass product (factory) but i haven`t seen much around like this.

kins regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:33 pm

Ladi,
It seems I skipped a couple during the brunch rush! I've edited with a more thorough run through. "Kutani" is more than just a region/style. While it IS a region, there are many styles coming from the region, most painted or enameled in some way. See my post on the subject. It's kind of a mid level brand name for painted pieces, like Tokoname became for bonsai pots in general ib the 70s. There are modern Kutani pots(Kutani Ikko, for example) that reach into the thousands of dollars, but the bulk of modern work is very inexpensive and commonly had. I agree with your assessment of your pot as production grade. The Setsuzan is the nicer piece of the two, older as well. I'll look into the two totally unknowns, but I hold little hope for the landscape pot.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:17 pm

hi Ryan,

thanks a lot for your afford, i apreciate that very much.
all those pots are not realy of some value, i was just curious...and i got more than expected.
thanks again and kind regards

ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  nekotoban on Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:47 am

Landscape pot (No.7) is Syozan Shibayama(庄山柴山), same pronounce with Syozan Watanabe(正山渡辺) but different kanji.
He is professional and has his own kiln in Tokoname.
The signature is read Syozan made(庄山作) on the right and Tokoname(とこなめ) in hiragana on the left.



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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:09 pm

hi nekotoban,

thank you very much.....piece by piece we bring that puzzle together

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:41 pm

hello ryan,

at first i didn`t recognize that you edit your post....thanks a lot, again.
so there is only one left Very Happy......when i return from my duty (brussels) i will try to make a better foto of the hanko you can`t see well.
this cloud feet pot is also one of my darlings.....

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:09 pm

That's good info Nektoban, thanks. I have a couple signatures of his but they didn't resemble this one at all. Now that I look closer, the style shouldve been a giveaway.
Ryan

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:57 pm

hi,

as promised a hopefully better photo of the unreadable hanko on the 8. cloud feet pot.....i hope you can see something.
i have to wait for the fotos taken by my friend....there will be also another pot with for me unknown rakkan.

thanks and kind regards
ladi

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please and thanks ......another two pots....

Post  level320 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:45 am

hello again,

another two pots i found for identification....... should be both japanese, the kusamono pot should be even from a famous potter,
it was a gift from a nursery owner in japan (our host told me after inspection of the pot that the potter is good known in japan...)
thanks again for the effort and time

13. rustic pot but with unusual thin walls



14. kusamono pot from a probably well known potter (Yasuto ?)



thanks for your patience and kind regards
ladi


Last edited by level320 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  level320 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:24 am

hi,

due to no further comments i wrote to a well known nursery in japan, which also trades
a lot of pots.....they wrote back after they looked at pictures i send them....pictures of the 8. cloud pot (on which i am most curious).
they are pretty sure that this pot was made about 30-40years ago probably in Tokoname

kind regards
ladi

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:59 pm

Yep, looks like you got the second. Looks like Yasuto to me, I'll post some more info on that potter later. The first is "Yae", wife of Matushita Matsuo, of the Izumi-Ya kiln in Tokoname, often also called Zenigo(and it's upside down). As to the Tokoname pot(I'm guessing IDed by Yorozuen), I'd suggest emailing The Tokaname Yuyaku directly, they'll be able to give you more information, if it is Tokoname.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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good guess...

Post  level320 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:57 pm

hi ryan,

you made a good guess...i asked yorozuen about the 8.cloud pot, and they gave me that information. your suggestion to write directly to tokoname sounds reasonable, so i will try.
my wife told me also that the first chop is upside down...i should listen to her the next time,
wifes are not always wrong Very Happy
it makes me happy that i recognized at least one chop by myself......of course with the help of your data base. again thanks for providing us such a helpfull tool..and of course for your time and effort.

kind regards
ladi


Last edited by level320 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

Post  Ryan B on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:10 pm

So here's some extra information about your pot. "Yasuto", also called "Okuda Koujin". 3rd generation potter of Shigaraki ware, considered one of the contemporary best in the region. Born in 1959. The seal here reads "信楽 康人" or "Shigaraki Koujin", while the potters name is "奥田康人"-"Okuda Koujin". Prices in general range from 2500- 9000¥, you can find more for sale here at Kinbon:
http://www.bonsai.co.jp/ec/products/list.php?category_id=228
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: Hanko and Rakan.....any idea ?

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