SCREW Grafting .....

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SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:11 am

Hello everyone. Smile

I've got a couple of projects (and problems) that might be accomplished by the use of screws. Searching about, the only recommendation I can find is to use BRASS screws. Is not every sort of material useful? Aluminium, stainless steel, etc, etc. Are some harmful Question

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:57 am

Scion wrote:Hello everyone. Smile

I've got a couple of projects (and problems) that might be accomplished by the use of screws. Searching about, the only recommendation I can find is to use BRASS screws. Is not every sort of material useful? Aluminum, stainless steel, etc, etc. Are some harmful Question

Even stainless steel will rust with time and aluminum will corrode. Also there may be an interaction with tree sap in some cases, I think that is why brass is recommended.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:00 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
Scion wrote:Hello everyone. Smile

I've got a couple of projects (and problems) that might be accomplished by the use of screws. Searching about, the only recommendation I can find is to use BRASS screws. Is not every sort of material useful? Aluminum, stainless steel, etc, etc. Are some harmful Question

Even stainless steel will rust with time and aluminum will corrode. Also there may be an interaction with tree sap in some cases, I think that is why brass is recommended.

St/St does NOT rust, if you know what type you should be using...the cheap ones are AISI 304, you need at least AISI 316 then you'll have no rust

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:51 am

Thank you both for your replies! Very Happy

The job I have in mind I plan to leave the screws permanently and allow growth to cover them completely, so corrosion is not a concern. However, I am thinking about the chemical "interaction" and if some metals are dangerous to the plant. To tell you the truth I don't know how many different metals are used in the production of small screws so I may be worrying for no reason. Brass, stanless steel, iron ............ ?

The first project is a root-over-rock benjamina with a l-o-o-o-o-o-ng (and gangly) aerial root that I want to screw against the trunk in several places so it will follow snugly along the rock and to give the plant a more tidy and established appearance. I've been working on this bonsai for about 12 years so I don't want to kill it now by using dangerous metals. Shocked

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  leatherback on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:13 pm

Just thinking outside the box you gave us: Instead of screwing them in place, couldn't you tie them with raffie, and then cling-film the bundle for a year or so?

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  fiona on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:26 pm

Would it be possibly to post a picture of your tree, Scion? That might help people in their responses.

Thanks



PS glad to see you made it on to the forum. Smile

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  JudyB on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:03 pm

Off the subject, but I love your avatar Scion. Could be a zenlike screensaver....
Can you add sounds to an avatar???

Don't ficus fuse really fast? I only ask because I want to understand why you wish to leave the screws in the tree instead of using temporary attachment...

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Stan Kengai on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:22 pm

Both copper (brass is a copper alloy) and aluminum can be toxic to plants. In fact, there was a news story around here where a guy killed his neighbors tree by hammering copper nails into it. I would only use stainless steel.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Poink88 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:41 pm

JudyB wrote:Can you add sounds to an avatar???
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol!
Judy, If it can be done, imagine each page with 15 posts....15 avatars playing music? It will drive me crazy!!!! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Poink88 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:45 pm

I agree with Fiona, a pic will help you get better advise.

I also agree that there seem to be better/safer options than screw in your case...the pic will validate if this is true.

Touching the imbedded metal issue is good though and the input so far are great. ThumbsUp

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:11 pm

fiona wrote:Would it be possibly to post a picture of your tree, Scion? That might help people in their responses.

Thanks



PS glad to see you made it on to the forum. Smile

Thank you for your help, Fiona! Unfortunately I haven't a recent photo.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:47 pm

leatherback wrote:Just thinking outside the box you gave us: Instead of screwing them in place, couldn't you tie them with raffie, and then cling-film the bundle for a year or so?

Well, it would take much more than one year for the aerial root to develope into a firm "buttress" against the trunk and the result of external binding would leave an indented "collar" on it. Rather unsightly. Screws on the other hand can be tightly secured with the head of it actually below surface level, and then covered with wounding paste. It's a one-step "all done!" job that won't need any after adjustment - ever - and it'll look good the moment it's in place.


JudyB wrote:Off the subject, but I love your avatar Scion. Could be a zenlike screensaver....
Can you add sounds to an avatar???

Don't ficus fuse really fast? I only ask because I want to understand why you wish to leave the screws in the tree instead of using temporary attachment...

Yes, I love that avatar myself! Don't know very much about computers and avatars, though as a GIF I guess sound could be added. But as Poink says it would't be feasible on this forum - or any other forum.

I suppose I could shave the trunk & aerial root then bind them "any which way" but I'm too much of a coward to try that. I think screws are the quick & simple sollution, and when they're in place, it's done.


Stan Kengai wrote:Both copper (brass is a copper alloy) and aluminum can be toxic to plants. In fact, there was a news story around here where a guy killed his neighbors tree by hammering copper nails into it. I would only use stainless steel.

Now I really am frightened! Right, it's stainless steel then! The only reason I mentioned brass is ........... In Ken Norman's "GROWING BONSAI", page 129, he writes on attatching a plant to driftwood with screws, "Stainless-steel screws are preferable, but brass would be a good second choice."


THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO'S CONTRIBUTED WITH ADVICE AND COMMENT! Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy



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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:15 pm

Scion wrote:Well, it would take much more than one year for the aerial root to develope into a firm "buttress" against the trunk and the result of external binding would leave an indented "collar" on it. Rather unsightly. Screws on the other hand can be tightly secured with the head of it actually below surface level, and then covered with wounding paste. It's a one-step "all done!" job that won't need any after adjustment - ever - and it'll look good the moment it's in place.

I have a F. natalinsis with such a "collar" for exactly that reason, and I think I just used twine.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:08 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
Scion wrote:Well, it would take much more than one year for the aerial root to develope into a firm "buttress" against the trunk and the result of external binding would leave an indented "collar" on it. Rather unsightly. Screws on the other hand can be tightly secured with the head of it actually below surface level, and then covered with wounding paste. It's a one-step "all done!" job that won't need any after adjustment - ever - and it'll look good the moment it's in place.

I have a F. natalinsis with such a "collar" for exactly that reason, and I think I just used twine.

Is it slowly evening out?

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:08 pm

No, it seems to be getting worse even with the string long gone.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  marcus watts on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:00 pm

that is my original / spring avatar, robbed Suspect ! oh well, better stick with obi now................... Laughing

google images is where you find the pic and code, several others there like it too.

i use any old screws, drive them right in and cover the top with a blob of cut paste - avoid copper though - if you put a circle of them in a tree it will die - you can kill half a tree by putting in a semi circle too


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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:55 pm

And one copper one would kill most Prunus.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:40 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:No, it seems to be getting worse even with the string long gone.

I'm sorry to hear that. A good reason for me to use screws instead - at least on this project.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:49 am

marcus watts wrote: that is my original / spring avatar, robbed Suspect !

The one I'm using???

marcus watts wrote:i use any old screws, drive them right in and cover the top with a blob of cut paste - avoid copper though - if you put a circle of them in a tree it will die - you can kill half a tree by putting in a semi circle too
....... and .......
Kev Bailey wrote:And one copper one would kill most Prunus.

I'm convinced!

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  marcus watts on Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:51 am

haha, yes - that was my original avatar on here for about 9 months - (i found several animated ones like it with a google search)

Then Jay started a bit of star wars/ George Lucas creativity - he went to the dark side for a while so Obi was born to keep the balance...........haha, bit of fun

marcus

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:32 am

marcus watts wrote:haha, yes - that was my original avatar on here for about 9 months - (i found several animated ones like it with a google search)
marcus

Oh, I see.

When you wrote "stolen" I thought perhaps you created it and I had broken a copyright law or something like that. I've been using it since I first registered with Internet Bonsai Club, about 2 years ago. But say! I do like that Obi avatar! I might start using that one! Laughing

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  bucknbonsai on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:13 pm

scion, rather than drilling directly in and covering with cut paste, to minimize scars could you lift a flap of cambium insert screw then lay the cambium back overtop the screw with a thin layer of cut paste across that?

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:36 am

bucknbonsai wrote:scion, rather than drilling directly in and covering with cut paste, to minimize scars could you lift a flap of cambium insert screw then lay the cambium back overtop the screw with a thin layer of cut paste across that?

I could, yes, but the circumference of the "flap" would need to be larger than the screw-head itself ....... risking an even larger scar. Also, the pointed end of the screw goes into the trunk - the head of the screw will rest in the aerial root and I'm a bit squeamish about tampering with it more than I have to.

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  EpicusMaximus on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:55 am

What about plastic screws?

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:41 am

EpicusMaximus wrote:What about plastic screws?

Sounds good to me! I don't imagine it would be harmful to the tree as far as I can see. Any idea where I can find them here in Malmö? Laughing

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Re: SCREW Grafting .....

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