Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

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Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:16 pm

a true native european species, typical habitat is as undergrowth (amongst others like hazel) under the canopy of the dominant forest trees. It is seldomly seen as bonsai, and it is very hard (or impossible) to come by in even larger bonsai nurseries (like ginkgo bonsai center), ive never seen one there as nursery material, nor do i see them as famous bonsai. There are only a few examples you find if you google a bit.

Reason? i really wouldnt know, its a pitty since the fall colours are spectacular, the leaves are pretty, larger older trees carry berries, leaves reduce in size very good, it produces lots of buds if you maintain a good grow-prune scheme (good growth, prune hard, every 1 or 2 years), its almost impossible to kill, and it can stand harsh winters (up to -15C° without any protection is not a problem at all!).

The only reason i can think of is that it does not produce a lot of (secondary) branches. Only when maturing the buds start to come, and when you constantly prune it enough.

My Sorbus A. is a seedling since 1997. It is about 25cm of height (without that outgrown top), that is about 9,5 inches; and its about 3,5 to 4cm wide, or 1,5 inches.

You can hardly see the secondary branches but there are some. A major primary branch on the back is a bit hidden. Good subtile movement in the branches that is the result of pruning back hard for years, and then 2 years unlimited grow before (thickening) before pruning back hard again. Now the buds start to come nicely.

The nebari is great for such a small tree but the moss hides it all a bit. Sorbus is great at producing heaps of roots, it normally doesnt pose any problem to create plenty of roots right there where you would want a nebari. That is, if you field grow it first.

Sorry for the poor picture quality.




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sorbus

Post  kora on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:11 pm

I have alway loved this species, but where I live it doesn't get cold enough in the winter, and if I tale it somewhere, where it is cold enough, I'd have to worry about the pot breaking-how do you handle that?kora

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:32 pm

kora wrote:I have alway loved this species, but where I live it doesn't get cold enough in the winter, and if I tale it somewhere, where it is cold enough, I'd have to worry about the pot breaking-how do you handle that?kora

uhm, i dont handle that, this pot has been outside at -15°C... if it would have been a bigger pot it would have cracked maybe... Last year i put it in the plastic playhouse of my kid, that becomes a winter shed for bonsai haha, open windows, just to avoid too much rain and biting winds. But it was in there because i had other trees in there as well, i wanted it to have some company. But it wouldnt have been any prob to just fully expose it to those temperatures, the pot...well it can just handle that

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:06 pm

Hello Yves.

I have a Sorbus Aucuparia yamadori that I've only had for 2 years. You say nothing can kill it. I know something that can kill it: insect parasites! My Sorbus was attacked this summer and no matter how hard I tried to fight them all the leaves were destroyed. I hope it will be still alive next spring. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  leatherback on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:13 pm

Love sorbus myself; Went ou tin the woods this summer and collected 2 seedlings, one this years, and one which is maybe 3 years. I guess they are too nomal to be sold often? Also, the wood is quite soft afaik. So protect well against woodrot.

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:14 pm

Scion wrote:Hello Yves.

I have a Sorbus Aucuparia yamadori that I've only had for 2 years. You say nothing can kill it. I know something that can kill it: insect parasites! My Sorbus was attacked this summer and no matter how hard I tried to fight them all the leaves were destroyed. I hope it will be still alive next spring. Crying or Very sad

Well, that is a shame, but...i'm still reluctant to believe that it was only the bugs and not the treatment you gave it Very Happy.
I have bugs too on my bonsai, even on the Sorbus, but if the problem persists and its a tough one, i hurry to use the appriorate method...and thats mostly a few treatment of a good systemic insecticide, if its bugs.

And what kind of 'bugs' you're referring too then? it must have been some sort of beetle then?

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:27 pm

leatherback wrote:Love sorbus myself; Went ou tin the woods this summer and collected 2 seedlings, one this years, and one which is maybe 3 years. I guess they are too nomal to be sold often? Also, the wood is quite soft afaik. So protect well against woodrot.

It is my plan to have at least 1 more Sorbus too...but collecting an older species from the wild is in most cases not worthwile because they grow like a spear, without many branches. That is offcourse because of the natural habitat (forest undergrowth). Many people think its a pest in the garden (spreading from berries that get eaten from birds), and when you do find an older one, we'll then it's deliberately planted as an ornamental garden tree. In many areas here in belgium they use it as ornamental lane/boulevard trees too. Finding an old but small and interesting Sorbus Aucuparia in the wild, is as good as a mission impossible. Outside of forest (or garden areas where seed has spread) you dont usually find them in the wild, so the chance of one being eaten/pruned by deer or rabits is small too. Its a shame.

So indeed, one practically must start from seedling if you want one withou too big a trunk chop. Oh wait, why haven't i thought about this before ;-)

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:34 pm

yves71277 wrote:

Well, that is a shame, but...i'm still reluctant to believe that it was only the bugs and not the treatment you gave it Very Happy.

Ha-ha!




yves71277 wrote:And what kind of 'bugs' you're referring too then? it must have been some sort of beetle then?

Spider mites (I think). I used liquid wool soap and Pyretal and Pyrex-N. I sprayed it every week-end which destroyed the web but the insects kept coming back. Finally all the leaves were dead. I hope it is still alive next spring because I have lots of work I want to do with it.

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:45 pm

[quote="Scion"]
yves71277 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:And what kind of 'bugs' you're referring too then? it must have been some sort of beetle then?

Spider mites (I think). I used liquid wool soap and Pyretal and Pyrex-N. I sprayed it every week-end which destroyed the web but the insects kept coming back. Finally all the leaves were dead. I hope it is still alive next spring because I have lots of work I want to do with it.

Maybe next time, attack the bugs bare handed (even if you're afraid of getting bitten Very Happy), then spray with a hose, spray away what you can, then see whats left and catch some more if you can ;-), then when its dried spray ONCE with your insecticide, and then put your tree in another place to avoid repeated attack. That must have been one hell of an attack, if it killed all leaves, maybe you came too late and the damage was allready done.

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Walter Pall on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:58 pm

How about this one?







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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:04 pm

Walter Pall wrote:How about this one?







Spitze!

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:05 pm

Walter Pall wrote:How about this one?







Walter, this is one of those i was referring to, when i said that i only know of 'some' famous bonsai Very Happy Very Happy
But i have referred to you before on other forums, and people were picking too much at me for it, so i shut up this time Very Happy Very Happy

thanks for volunteering Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:07 pm

[quote="yves71277"]
Scion wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:And what kind of 'bugs' you're referring too then? it must have been some sort of beetle then?

Spider mites (I think). I used liquid wool soap and Pyretal and Pyrex-N. I sprayed it every week-end which destroyed the web but the insects kept coming back. Finally all the leaves were dead. I hope it is still alive next spring because I have lots of work I want to do with it.

Maybe next time, attack the bugs bare handed (even if you're afraid of getting bitten Very Happy), then spray with a hose, spray away what you can, then see whats left and catch some more if you can ;-), then when its dried spray ONCE with your insecticide, and then put your tree in another place to avoid repeated attack. That must have been one hell of an attack, if it killed all leaves, maybe you came too late and the damage was allready done.


I think that's good advice! I'll try it.

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Walter Pall on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:22 pm

yves71277 wrote:


But i have referred to you before on other forums, and people were picking too much at me for it, so i shut up this time Very Happy Very Happy

Yves,

what exactly would one pick at you for this tree?

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:26 pm

Walter Pall wrote:

Yves,

what exactly would one pick at you for this tree?

I also wanted to ask him that question ..... Laughing

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  leatherback on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:10 pm

Well, walter, you do of course have quite a name in bonsai. When showing one of your trees as an example typically results in "Not everyone can be Walter Pall", or "So you think you are the next Walter Pall".

Such a shame it poored with rain when I visited your garden last summer. Don't think I saw this one Neutral

grt,

Jelle.

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

Post  Guest on Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:24 pm

Walter Pall wrote:
yves71277 wrote:


But i have referred to you before on other forums, and people were picking too much at me for it, so i shut up this time Very Happy Very Happy

Yves,

what exactly would one pick at you for this tree?

Hi Walter,
nothing I guess, i was generalising because of the 'picking' i got, when i was talking about the 'modern' substrate i use... and i dared to mention your name, not as the inspiror of my zeolite substrate but i referred to your general experiences to about these things...and oh boy, i got some picking. Anyway i was not offended, i dont care even, but i simple avoid that a good topic would be wasted with the same bullshit over and over again, so i did not include examples. And what i said about Sorbus being rarely used, still stands.

But i am actually glad to seer your tree pop up here Walter, you may know me as a regular commentor on your blog...yves from belgium ;-).

I hope to make the trip to your garden some day, but having 2 kids, 1 year and almost 3 years, that would not be a good idea. Maybe if I find some friends enthousiasts who would also want to make a trip into germany.

yves

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Re: Rarely seen in bonsai: Sorbus Aucuparia

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