Bringing out the sheen in Stones

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Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  crust on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:22 pm

I have collected quite a few stones over the years. Most are textured and look best as they are but lately I have found a couple which I would like to bring a sheen out in--maybe even polish a little. What products and techniques are you stoners using to do this?

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Now thats a loaded question!

Post  stonener on Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:28 am

Of the double sawed off shotgun type!
To say the very lest!
I will share what "I" do and have found acceptable,
as an expert on nothing, I will say first!... Basketball

When it all comes down to enhancing appearance,
like on a body builder or a women get ready for a picture.
to bring out contrasting colors, skin surface and natural polish.
But Only on hard dense stones types from the river or beach.
And Never on soft absorbent porous materials... Suspect
I use camellia oil, it is a Japanese product used to maintain samuri swords.
It's very lite, clear and evaporates in three days, which does not harm the stone.
For decades I've heard of people using every possible thing from baby oil, Vaseline,
to leather, toilet bowl or oven cleaners, from olive oil to 30 WT motor oil.
Many will tell you what not to use!, or use nothing!, but water.
Hope this helps and not just opens a can of worms... Basketball



sorry about the bad picture, best I can do...


Last edited by stonener on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spell check)

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:59 am

Hi Crust

I also use camelia oil on the hard stones, like Stonener do....But right after using it, will I dry off the oil again. and make sure the oil is not left in caves and holes, as it look wet, and does not please me.
After 10 days is the oil dry, and I can give the stone a polish...I only use a jeans cottoncloth for my stones...works perfect for me....only handrubbing.
This polish is called "indoor yoseki", and is something japanese people have done for generations, to show their affection for the stone.
After a few months Is the stone back in its usual collor, but still a kind of fresh, and will remain like this.
No need to ever oil the stone again.
The oil made it easier to give the first yoseki, and it is easy to keep this polish up, not a problem.....it is up to you, and what you do in the future to make the stone a really nice appreciated suiseki.
After some years will this yoseki be old, and a kind of grow into the stone.
In my GALLERY can you see the second stone, the setagawastone, with old yoseki

You can take the hard stone back in the garden for more "outdoor yoseki" again any time, if you want to...The oil will soon dissappear.
I made the test on a very soft uninteresting stone...oiled it, and left it in the garde....after 2-3 month did the stone take in water again. It was impossible to see it ever had ben oiled, also the collor was back to previus.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  sunip on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:56 pm

Hello Crust,

Interesting topic.
Personally i only use clothe (the jeans Yvonne mentioned) sometimes wrapped around a piece of wood,
and natural cleaning brushes, soft and hard (tooth brush), no oil.
It takes some time.
Also there is the personal decision to consider: when yoseki changes into polishing and altering a stone.

When the stone is of a Lingbi type of stone or the Ligurian type it is a bit different,
you find on page 16 an interesting story from Jackwk;
Aug. 30 2009 Chinese Lingbi Stone photo & culture introduction.

Sunip Wink

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:20 pm

Not all my hard stones is oiled slightly....some stones gloss up, as soon as you touch them with a duster.
With theese stones, will I take very much care, not to do too much.
When all this, and my previus reply, is said, does it all come dawn to personal taste, and for me, does it chance from stone to stone. But in generel do I like some indoor yoseki on hard stones, as it give a nice contrast to the stone.

Brushes is only used, when the stone is still in the garden...there is a big diffrence between indoor, and outdoor yoseki.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Poink88 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:29 pm

Good thing I am not into suiseki...otherwise I will be chastised for taking the power tool (aka buffer & polisher) to it. Twisted Evil lol!

As usual, for me...the end justifies the means. Though others call it "cheating". Lots of people probably do, just ashamed to admit it. Wink

(time to run and duck under cover)

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:37 pm

Poink88 wrote:Good thing I am not into suiseki...otherwise I will be chastised for taking the power tool (aka buffer & polisher) to it. Twisted Evil lol!

As usual, for me...the end justifies the means. Though others call it "cheating". Lots of people probably do, just ashamed to admit it. Wink

(time to run and duck under cover)

Hi Dario

I dont think it is called cheating, as it is very easy to see, if the stone is heavy oiled, or/and polished with a powertool.....it all comes dawn to personal taste, and how you feel suiseki should be to you...

Kind regards Yvonne

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get expert advise!

Post  stonener on Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:55 am

Hey Crust,
This is exacting what I was talking about!
WORMS, Worms and more worms.
Ask the experts on this form!... farao king study
There are many who can, but will not commit...
I too am very interested in hearing solid,
concrete answers backed by facts.
Start by asking directly... Basketball
*Chris Cochrane*
*Bill Valavanis*
*Tom Elias*


Last edited by stonener on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : named names)

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:44 am

Hi Stoner

What do you mean by saying worms tree times?...Please explain, as I dont think you want to insult people who actully gave a honest reply.

Kind regards yvonne

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no explanation necessary

Post  stonener on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:55 am

yvonne exactly as you say!
re-read and try to make an effort to understand!... Basketball
*if you can't PM*


Last edited by stonener on Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:01 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add alternative)

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  crust on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:17 am

So far, with great fear and trepidation, quietly in my spare bedroom, I rub my smooth stone against my greasy forehead slipping between guilt and mesmerization.

crust
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best of all

Post  stonener on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:16 am

That My Friend Crust is perfect!... cheers
Best way to develop patina, rub it with your hands... Like a Star @ heaven
it will take time, but worth the results... Basketball

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:19 pm

Hi Crust... It depends on your purpose in display on whether to manipulate stone surfaces. For the Japanese art of suiseki, retaining a natural surface without artifice is important. For many suiseki appreciated for landscape-view contour, it is especially important that they absorb water & are trained to release it slowly over their surface. Oil from face or hands retards retention of a moist surface drying slowly. Yvonne & Joseph/'stonene'r will regret oiling their stones, in time. As Yvonne notes, oiled stones are readily apparent-- including many she has posted & described as "indoor aged." Sunip correctly recommends dusting with a dry cloth-- the practice of cultivated enthusiasts in Japan-- to dry-age (the proper reference is "dry aged" rather than "indoor yoseki") stones that are not improved by slow weathering (wet-aging).

I'd recommend going to the IBC home page and use the search box "wet aged suiseki," which identifies ~ 20 previous posts (& related threads) on this subject.

For other forms of appreciation, you have many options. Recognize that adding wetting agents to temporarily deepen stone color often effects a stone's natural translucence-- sometimes quickly but in many instances the destruction is slow. Famous collectors stones are maintained by collectors but seldom shown because oiling has left them brown (the oil attracting and retaining debris) and lifeless in lacking transluscence. Oiling is not reversible. Many stones on IBC appear "oiled" or "glazed with acid." These are options you might consider depending on the material for which you wish a sheen. Once a wetting agent is added to stone, it must be added repeatedly to regain the original effect. Left on (& transported within) stones which are porous, wetting agents (oils, waxes, humectants et al.) attract dirt which affects the stone's color as well as translucence. Even soap/detergent which can be washed out of a stone along with surface debris draws superficial color from many stones & can dramatically affect light refraction.

I'd recommend careful mechanical cleaning (think brushing/picking) to remove debris. Then, dry dusting with cloth for friable stones or for hard, dense (finely-grained) stones with a luster that already is appealing. For landscape-view stones without an immediately apparent luster, weather them outside to clean & develop a lusterous surface slowly. It is okay to use soap in the original cleaning of a stone to release debris, but I would not recommend soap or detergent as a wetting agent to be left on a stone after seeing soap ruin the translucense of a once-valued stone of mine.

_________________
... visit the U.S. National Bonsai & Penjing Museum, Washington DC USA-- http://www.bonsai-nbf.com

Chris Cochrane
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so never again for me

Post  stonener on Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:53 pm

There you go Crust!... thumbs up
Expert advise, straight from the "horse's mouth"
None could be better, facts, make it perfect!
I too have learned, what not to do! plus more.
Thanks Chris we needed that!... study

Sunip my friend your practice has been the best,
less is more! I should have known, only natural is natural.
So grateful for your "pearls of wisdom"... Basketball
*local-isms added for hummer* as was the term worms


Last edited by stonener on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to "avoid" misunderstandings)

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:21 pm

Hi Chris

I like the word " dry ageing " much better than " indoor yoseki"....I will use this in the future, as this is exacly what is happening....rubbing in the beginning, to get the sheen started, and later just dusting with a cottoncloth.

Many thanks.
Kind regards Yvonne


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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:03 pm

Hi

I have once been advised to use a little soap to "age" a stone......I have not tried the stunt, as I prefer the rubbing for the hard stones.... natural age will come with time.

This soap-information told me, not to clean a new found stone with soap.

I keep my stones in the garden untill they are cleaned by the weather, watering them often, and afterwards using a hard brush, or just leave them.

The cameliaoil is very light. and dissapear soon.....
If the hard stone is treated with this oil, can a coupple of months with a lot of rain in the garden, bring the stone back to what it was. I see no diffrence....
The sheen that was once started, will fairly soon be back again, with the use of the cottoncloth.... This is how I treat my stones.

Handwarm water will also soon remove every rest of the oil, that might be left on the stone, if wished.

After reading about yoseki by Martin Pauli in january, did I make many experiments on diffrent stonequalities ( not my suisekistones). Also did I begin to ask diffrent questions from what I was used to....I have studied MANY photos, and looked at stones treated with rubbing, and later compared them with mine.

A few days ago, I showed a new stone, in one of my topics....It has been in the garden all year, and It will go back again...But now it has a new daiza, and the rubbing has been started up, the stone will be rubbed more for some time, before going back......in some moths, or when I think the stone has become nice, will it come back in the house again...it is a little to rough for my taste now, and does look a little weath....I was surpriced no one asked.

I cant help thinking, it is strange more questions is not asked on this suisekipage...silence is what you gett, most of, a pity when so much information and ideas can be given with simple questions...

I have seen REALLY old suiseki in Japan...and yes, they become darker, like a kind of brown...Would you say it is because they are oiled...I dont know.

Hope it helps...Kind regards Yvonne


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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  Norma on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:37 pm

Hi David,

I've been collecting Minnesota stones since the early nineties and I've tried all kinds of ways to give my stones a patina. Many of the river stones off the North Shore already have a smooth hard surface and need little intervention.

I learned that the oils I used looked good for a short time but became spotty and unnatural looking. Now I just clean the stones with warm water and a soft toothbrush after which they go on the bonsai bench. If a stone appears ready for a daiza I spend time rubbing the stone and I use the suggestion Sean Smith gave me which he learned while apprenticing in Japan with a master in suiseki. His master handed him old nylons to rub the stones. The stone receives a sheen without the discoloration it would get from an oil.

See you at a club meeting....and bring a stone!

Norma

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

Post  crust on Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:38 am

Thanks to everyone helping me learn about their stone care methods. I suspected there was consequences to applying oils and would have never guessed that one would just rub stones to make them more lustrous. Funny thing though is that salts and oils on ones hands are no doubt deposited in doing that--hmmmm. Anyway, I would steal my wife's nylons for nefarious rock rubbing sessions but alas she is kinda of a hippie chick and owns none.

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Re: Bringing out the sheen in Stones

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