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The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai

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Marty Weiser
tbarkley
adam1234
JudyB
manosvince
Poink88
MikeG
papymandarin
JimLewis
marcus watts
MrFancyPlants
bucknbonsai
Leo Schordje
leatherback
Khaimraj Seepersad
my nellie
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Post  Khaimraj Seepersad Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:39 am

Perhaps someone might wish to expand this topic into ground or field growing ?

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATfieldgrowing.htm

Later.
Khaimraj
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Post  JudyB Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Yvonne, will that pinned down branch ever actually become a root? Or will it always be a branch and continue to sprout? Just wondering...

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Post  Guest Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:21 pm

Hi JudyB

My plan is to remove every option for a domant bud on the end of the branch branch....then it will/can not shoot.
The end of the branch is the first internode on the branch, so it will only be able to shoot by the trunk.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  JudyB Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:37 pm

Thank you Yvonne for the explanation. Neat little trick!

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Post  Guest Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:36 pm

I have a Little update on the rose from page 1....after seeing a another members sweet rosebonsais, did I decide, the small kusamono had to be a future shohin...for shure....
The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 Img_3222
This is how it look today, the trunk have pushed off/lost the old bark...new will develope...maybe not eassy to see on the Photo, but the trunk is fatter Smile 
The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 Img_3223
This one 1.5 m long sacrificebranch, has done a good job sinse middsummer, and still does...the tip.. 10 cm...is still soft and growing....the tree gave me 3 flowers during summer...cant complain.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  Leo Schordje Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:14 pm

Love it, that is one heck of a sacrifice branch. But necessary! Thanks for showing us.
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Post  Guest Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:41 pm

I hope I can show you one more next year...and a even fatter trunk Smile 

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  tbarkley Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:45 pm

I purchased this Japanese Maple in early July 2013. The first pic is how it looked then, the other 3 were taken on 9/12/2013. For some reason, one of the uprights took a sharp turn for about 3 inches, then went straight back up (you can see it in the last pic). I have no idea why. I was told by Brent @ EvergreenGardenWorks (where I bought the tree) just to repot it this fall in a bigger but shorter pot and let it continue to grow wild till about May 2014. Then trim it back towards original shape (but larger) and let it grow wild till about June/July and trim again. Does that sound about right? Remember, I'm a newbe and need all the help I can get. Fall of 2014 I can start planning how I want to shape it.
The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 As_bou10
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The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 Dscn0216
I don't mean to give a plug, (well I guess I really do) but Brent @ EvergreenGardenWorks is a really good guy to work with, lots of help.
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Post  Marty Weiser Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:22 am

Good advice on the wider, shallower pot. I have also read that you get the most thickening on maples if the terminals are untouched - i.e. growing long versus branching. However, this can cause issues with winter storage.

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Post  Guest Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:44 am

Hi T Barkley

It is ok advise the seller gave you....as soon as the branches stop growing in the tip, can you cut them back to a more handy shape.
In late Winter or early spring, is it a good idea to pot the tree in a more shallow pot to improve the flat rootsystem.
Find the front ( if you can) and show the tree to IBCmembers, or 4 Photos, and the front can be found...this must be before the leafes is open, then will it be posible to trim the Growth, and cut back unwanted branches, before the tree is left to grow "wild" Again for the summer.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  tbarkley Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:40 am

Marty, Yvonne,
Thanks for the feedback. Looking forward to seeing the fall colors and the what the tree looks like with no leaves.
The leaves are so thick, its hard to see what's in the middle.
At that time, I will post 4 pics for help in finding the front. I want to see if I agree with every one else. Smile
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Post  Brian Van Fleet Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:26 am

Tony,
Brent is one of the good guys for sure! He's not wrong, but I'd be inclined to wait to do the repotting until spring...just as the buds are swelling. Then, the goal should be to get the roots flat, shallow, and radial.
http://nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai/Projects_files/Evolution%20of%20Jap%20Maple.pdf
Brian Van Fleet
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Post  Nigel Parke Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:15 pm

Brian Van Fleet wrote:Tony,
Brent is one of the good guys for sure!  He's not wrong, but I'd be inclined to wait to do the repotting until spring...just as the buds are swelling.  Then, the goal should be to get the roots flat, shallow, and radial.
http://nebaribonsai.com/Nebari_Bonsai/Projects_files/Evolution%20of%20Jap%20Maple.pdf
Brian,

Excellent progression, thanks a lot for sharing this knowledge. This is a good reference tool.

Can't really add much to the discussion Tony as I don't have a Maple, love them immensely though, its my aim to have one in the future. Two friends of mine do but where they live is a bit cooler than where I do. All the best with it though.

Regards,
Nigel
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:26 pm

Hi Brian

It is a very nice link you have send...I enjoyed it wery much.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  tbarkley Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:59 pm

Thanks for the link Brian, very good, I'll keep the .pdf for reference.
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Post  arihato Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:06 pm

I have been using sacrificial branches to grow me ShoHin Larches, with much success.
This Larch was cut back to one bud + sacrificial branch this spring.

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 9475346942_9c071d8bde_z
CRW_7554 by Arihato, on Flickr

Now it has grown the beginning of a nice new trunk

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 9475445048_867708abe5_z
IMG_2147 by Arihato, on Flickr

The result of well placed sb's, this tree was potted up, this spring (out of its basket)

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 9407043231_a82c8158bc_z
IMG_2125 by Arihato, on Flickr

Frau Graubaeck, my Japanese rose (Rosa fujiyama) has not grown as large as yours, but this is the first year it did grow this long a shoot.

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 9738133760_1a460a29af_z
IMG_2424 by Arihato, on Flickr

My question is though what do I do with the shoot and when??? Can I leave it on and make cuttings in spring, or is it better to remove it in autumn after the leaves have fallen?
She has flowered nicely this year 5 flowers, white with nice perfume, this was the last one at the end of summer

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 9347322527_bc92d0b69d_z
IMG_2084 by Arihato, on Flickr

Not perfect anymore but it smelled just as good.
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Post  Guest Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:22 pm

Hi Arihato

Your larix look realy nice, it will become a nice shohin very soon Smile 

I took off the long sacrificebranch, when it did not grow in the length any more...this was, for letting the rest of the trenght go to the maintree...I wanted to make shure it did not weaken.

I also had 5 flowers, they are lovely....I made 4 cuttings during the summer, and they all grow. they was just 4 or 5 leafes stalks, taken from the shapetrimming of the crown.
If the long sacrificebranch will root if shortened?...I dont know, it is worth the try, or just do it next year, with new shots.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  Marty Weiser Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:15 pm

I have been using sacrifice branches for the last 3 years to develop a little taper and wound closure after I cut back the top of a trident maple. The first picture shows the current status with a pair of 4+ foot (1.2 m) long sacrifice branches (750 ml wine bottle for scale). They will be cut back to a couple of internodes for winter storage. The white items at the base of the tree are the clips I used to hold some root grafts in place during the 2011 repot. And yes there are bar branches. I am keeping them now to make sure the roots on all sides do well, but will be cutting them back over the next year or two as the other branches on the side that gets cut become stronger.


The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 2013_t11

This is the wound from the 2012 sacrifice branch and the location of the pair of 2013 sacrifice branches. The new leader has been wired upright on the right hand side of the image.

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 2012_s10

This is the wound from the 2011 sacrifice branch.The new leader is on the left, the current sacrifice branches are at the top, and I am holding a side branch out of the way. I will cut back this all back with a tapering cut to the new leader and side branch in the spring after the buds have pushed.

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 2011_s11

Finally, here is the wound from 2010 when I cut the top off the tree and started the process. It is a long, tapering cut on the back of the tree. You can also see the new back branch that I thread grafted through the edge of the scar in 2012.

The fun of the use of sacrificebranches, when developing bonsai - Page 3 2010_m10


Last edited by Marty Weiser on Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Bar branch comment)

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Post  Guest Mon Sep 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi marty

Your tree is nice and big, it will have a great future, already nice...having the two large sacrificegranches in the top is a good idea ...
I have some Acer Nikko's, I also want to grow big like your tree, 4 at the moment, but will start up  more next year...did this taperwork on many smaller trees, and found it can be a problem if sacrificebranches become too fat on the part of a tree I want to use later... they can give a unwanted inverted taper or bulge when callus form...and it takes a lot to outgrow them

Good luck with your tree...hope for more updates next year.

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Post  Leo Schordje Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:35 pm

Yvonne & Arihato
your roses look great, Yvonne's photo earlier this summer inspired me to pick up a couple roses. The goal is to eventually work them into shohin size or maybe slightly larger trees. They are both hybrids, but they are not grafted, they are on their own roots. It will be interesting to see if how they develop.

Last week on a walk I pick some hips (fruit with seeds) of our local native wild prairie rose, it is most likely Rosa arkansana, or Rosa carolina, or maybe Rosa acicularis or Rosa virginia. It is difficult to identify our native 'prairie' roses to species. They all stay small, usually under 1/2 meter, or less than 18 inches. The prairie roses are likely best for kusamono. The species growing locally has a long bloom season, from May through into August. It often stays less than 12 inches tall (0.3 meters) and foliage often has a red flush, with more brilliant red fall colors. The fruit, hips, are medium in size, scarlet-orange-red, and persist all winter. Could be nice if I get germination. Can't dig whole plants from the park, that would get me a serious fine $$$.

But thanks for inspiring me to look into another group of plants.
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Post  Guest Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:35 pm

Hi Leo

Please take a look at this page...
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t13226-a-rose-for-the-ladies?highlight=ladies

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  arihato Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:44 pm

Leo a small rose as an incentive:

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IMG_0534 by Arihato, on Flickr

This little rose is about 15 years old, flowers every year, is about 12-15 cm tall. It was one those little roses that are on sale at mothers day, I gave this one to my mother and when it had finished flowering she gave it back so I could see if I wanted to do something with it.
I treat them like ordinary roses, cut back in autumn, no N till the first flowers (helps reduce mildew).
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Post  jsonacob Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:27 am

Its really funny to see the overgrown sacrificial branches.

But recently I also experienced the not so fun part. Here in our place we got some heavy rains for the past few days and 2 of the sacrificial branches in one of my trees got snapped and I learned a valuable lesson hehe..

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Post  Guest Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:43 am

Tried snapped cacrificebranches too....learned it a coulple of years ago...could have warned you..sorry.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Post  jsonacob Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:48 am

Hehe those poor branches just became like a tuition fee for our learning.

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