Urgent question: Who made this pot?

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Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Max on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:17 pm

Hi everybody,

I just can't find out, who built this pot? I have been to Ryans website, to Bonsaipot Plaza and to the tokoname website.
Without any success (maybe I am blind?)... But I need to know as soon as possible because I have to decide if I want to buy it or not... and there are just a few hours left... So anybody who knows please answer and thank you very much for your help!

Best wishes
Max


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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:15 pm

Why does who made it weigh so heavily on whether you buy the pot? If it is well made and if you like it, then the maker is something to find out at your leisure. Or not. The tree that goes in it doesn't give a hoot. Likely Chinese mass production, but again, who cares if it is well done.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:21 pm



Max, I couldn't find it in my stuff either. What Jim said is very likely.

BUT, remember that pot Marcus posted? We could identify it by the signature, but couldn't find a record of the chop. So, who knows???

R

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  rockm on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:26 pm

Like Jim said, if you like it and it's well-made, what does it matter who made it?

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:37 pm



Personally, it matters to me.

I "like it" a whole lot more when I can buy a pot by a really good potter and not pay much for it. Spending a lot of money on a pot then finding out that the maker is untraceable kinda sucks in my book - even if I like the pot. But, hey, that's just me.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  marcus watts on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:41 pm

Russell Coker wrote:
BUT, remember that pot Marcus posted? We could identify it by the signature, but couldn't find a record of the chop. So, who knows???

R

Yes, the mystery is part of the excitement - I bought the pot before posting pictures here, and as there are no written records in the books of the chop/signature combination who knows.......my pot may make it into a future pot reference book.

i bought it for the acer, here it is even though the leaves are about to drop off


cheers.

There are lots of chinese pots with japanese looking chop marks now, but it looks like a nice green glaze, do you have the tree or were you looking to it as a collectors piece?

marcus


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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Poink88 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:11 pm

Russell Coker wrote:Personally, it matters to me.

I "like it" a whole lot more when I can buy a pot by a really good potter and not pay much for it. Spending a lot of money on a pot then finding out that the maker is untraceable kinda sucks in my book - even if I like the pot. But, hey, that's just me.
I am with Russell on this. It really boils down to the buyer's intent. Me, I want something with value...if it can be something I enjoy and be an investment piece at the same time, why not?

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Max on Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:38 pm

Hey everybody,

thank you all very much for your help!

Personally, it matters to me.
I "like it" a whole lot more when I can buy a pot by a really good potter and not pay much for it. Spending a lot of money on a pot then finding out that the maker is untraceable kinda sucks in my book - even if I like the pot. But, hey, that's just me.
In fact to me its exactly the way Russel described already.

And no, there is no special tree for it, I just collect pots... usually Peters...
so when I buy anything else it should be for a concrete tree or must be something valueable.
(If you want, have a look to my not yet english website.)

So I will let you know if I get it or not. But I will now definetly bid for it!
Once again! Thank you very much for your help! Very Happy

Max
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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Klaudia & Martin on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:11 am

Hello Max

Let us see the whole pot if you have got it!

Kind regards
Martin

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Max on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:35 am

Hi Martin,

sorry, I didn't get it... Embarassed
And I am realy suprised about that. But thats life.

Best wishes
Max

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  rockm on Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:08 pm

"Me, I want something with value...if it can be something I enjoy and be an investment piece at the same time, why not?."

There's value and "Value" in bonsai pots, I guess.

I don't really care about the maker. I'm not hoping, or expecting, to get any return on my investment in a nice pot. I buy what I can afford (not many Japanese), what I like (mostly Western potters) and what can work as actual bonsai pots. More of a practical approach, I guess...

More power to you if you're collecting these little gem pots. They are spectacular, but mostly impossible (and impractical) to actually use.

And FWIW, posting a pot that you're about to buy (but haven't) on a site where specialist collectors lurk is basically inviting someone to buy it out from under you... Wink

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Max on Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:29 pm

rockm wrote:"Me, I want something with value...if it can be something I enjoy and be an investment piece at the same time, why not?."

There's value and "Value" in bonsai pots, I guess.

I don't really care about the maker. I'm not hoping, or expecting, to get any return on my investment in a nice pot. I buy what I can afford (not many Japanese), what I like (mostly Western potters) and what can work as actual bonsai pots. More of a practical approach, I guess...

More power to you if you're collecting these little gem pots. They are spectacular, but mostly impossible (and impractical) to actually use.

And FWIW, posting a pot that you're about to buy (but haven't) on a site where specialist collectors lurk is basically inviting someone to buy it out from under you... Wink

Well, I promise nobody will have been able to find this pot on the net because of the posted pic.
Cause it has been sent to me via email and not been shown on the auction. Otherwise I would never have asked! Wink

Max
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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:16 pm




rockm wrote: And FWIW, posting a pot that you're about to buy (but haven't) on a site where specialist collectors lurk is basically inviting someone to buy it out from under you... Wink



Well, sadly that happens, but it won't be by me. Max, if you (or anyone) can't find what you need on the other references you can always pm me and I'll check what I have.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  rockm on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:20 pm

I didn't mean to suggest Russell was the one. I apologize if that's the way it came across.


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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:36 pm



No need to apologize, that's NOT the way it came across - to me, anyway!

But you're right, it happens. CYA is always the best policy.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:53 pm

Guys,

try and not mix up Genuine Antique Article philosophies and the silly vintage or the other nonsense so prevalent today.

Antiques cost because .................................

Buy what you like, and at what you believe you can afford, without having to think about how much you would make if you sold it back.

Old money does as it wishes, the rest of the world manages.

Something I think I should have explained to poor Russell.Abot 2 years ago, he offered me a decent pot quietly, because on my side pots are not easy to get. I have never forgotten his kindness to a stranger, nor his concern. He asked for nothing in return.
However, I am one of those weird folk who will choose the strangest of things to use as Bonsai pots, and I can make dressed rectangles or squares like the Chinese Yi-xing stuff if I need to.
I prefer to spend my time with Egyptian Paste and other Fritware bodies.

I think what Russell saw was my having fun with Chinese cast ware, you know the ones spray painted gold and with fake flowers/leaves stuck in with cement or plaster of paris.

I like to fire out the cement and add a real glaze, normally putting a mame' in it.

Try not to buy non-antiques and then get fooled into thinking you have a collectors item ---- it is just part of the hype.
See Ebay.
You need at least 100 years and dead potters to get any real returns on those efforts.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Poink88 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:28 pm

Khaimraj,

For me it is quality that counts the most. I can grow in plastic pots but if I have to invest and choose between a $75.00 so-so pot vs. a $200.00 nice pot (please note I have big trees), painful but I would get the $200 pot. Not looking at resale value but just the quality and satisfaction it will give me. The value is always there too (and markings/ID help in that regard) in case my taste changes and want it replaced later. Nice to know you have something of value rather than a throw away.

I am not into antiques (because I cannot afford it) but people who do have valid or just personal reasons for it that no one should ever question.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:36 pm

hee hee,
Just teasing you Dario,

well made mame', shohin and pea sized bonsai pots of good quality, can start at $200.00 US.
Large pots start at $600.00 for basic quality and go up.
Which is why only the trees I am happiest with get clay, everyone else gets mica.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Poink88 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:57 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:...well made mame', shohin and pea sized bonsai pots of good quality, can start at $200.00 US.
Large pots start at $600.00 for basic quality and go up.
Shocked Shocked Shocked I can't afford those pots. There are lots of up and coming potters (even well known) who make custom pots for a lot less than that!

I am setting my limit (for x-large pots) at $250.00 and I will have very few at that price (at least for now). I usually check eBay and still find/get good medium sized (sometimes used) pots around $50-$100 every now and then. That is my new "normal" price range (used to be lower actually). Very Happy

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Peter E. on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:35 pm

I think you are all loosing the POINT.
The right pot is not about value or who made it.
It should be about showing the tree to it's best.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Poink88 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:40 pm

Peter E. wrote:I think you are all loosing the POINT.
The right pot is not about value or who made it.
It should be about showing the tree to it's best.
Yes, IF you can afford it. The truth & reality is, not everyone can.

Are you familiar with the word "Branding"? BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc. is synonymous to good quality...same with bonsai pot maker. I would love to have all my pots custom made but my budget won't allow it.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  marcus watts on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:53 pm

its funny.......I've spent just over 20 years concentrating on the trees and only had one 'good' (stamped signed tokoname) pot, and that was by fluke as it came with the tree. It is only the last 6 months that I thought the trees were becoming worthy of better pots - when we had the Peter Warren weekend workshop at my place last month my trees were in mica, modern chinese, unknown and low cost (less than £60.00) UK made pots. All the pots together were worth less than any single tree on my bench i guess.

I think it is best to spend the right money on the right things at the right stage in the hobby. normal Trees first, tools, consumables, invest in education, then better trees, then better education, ....... then special pots. A long standing bonsai friend (who happens to own my local bonsai nursery) recently put his personal pot collection on the shop shelves as they have sat on his private shelf for the last 20-25 years. They were mostly unplanted since new, and in my mind were wasted - I have always believed the master craftsman potter sat making the pot with the perfect tree in his mind - so to buy the pot and stick it on a shelf for ever has refused the potter and the pot the final honour in my mind - luckily i traded 4 of my nice but spare trees for 6 great pots so now some trees look a little bit nicer. Had i not traded these were pots from £275 - £465 and each was picked with a specific tree in mind.

tbo i would not have bought more than one yet with actual money tho Very Happy

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  marcus watts on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:03 pm

Peter E. wrote:I think you are all loosing the POINT.
The right pot is not about value or who made it.
It should be about showing the tree to it's best.

yes-------agree--------the pot is the equal 50% to combine with the tree to make the bonsai - correct size is first, shape, style & colour/glaze come next. The value means nothing really, and who made it is interesting for history but does not help it work with the tree at all. A tree in development only needs a development pot doesnt it? I have finally picked a few nicer pots for my best 6 trees because better pots tend to be more unique rather than mass produced, but it has taken over 20 years to do so.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:05 pm

The pot should function like a good frame does for an oil painting, finish the effort, but not compete with the tree.
Later.
Khaimraj

* As usual brightly glazed or special effect coats are best on tiny pots, as a ruby or emerald sits comfortably in a 22k gold ring. Enough to attract, but not over power.

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

Post  Poink88 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:30 pm

marcus watts wrote:...the pot is the equal 50% to combine with the tree to make the bonsai.
I know I've read this also somewhere and you are most likely right but I personally do not see the pot as 50% equal to the tree in a bonsai. I am not diminishing its importance...I just think the tree is a lot more important. JMHO

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Re: Urgent question: Who made this pot?

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