First bonsai help needed

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:28 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Most of the wood sealants are clear, you mention vasline, but I am not sure it is the same product we have.
The bitumen would work I am just not sure how it would look. The rubber paint for the pond would probably peal off.
The problem with Bougie wood is that it rots in just a few months, especially in a wet climate. If you are dry and water the soil only it will take longer.
Can it be like varnish? You said it is clear. Is it used in every day life for something else? If I know what it is used for I can know where to look.
I can not order from the internet from here.Paypal does not like Africans! Will buy it when I go abroad but need to use something at the moment.

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:33 pm

Maybe to use some epoxy clear glue???Just an Idea. I am trying to think what can seal wood.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Sakaki on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:17 pm

Neli wrote:Can I use bitumen or vaselin. Dont have any wood sealant here...What can I use? Have rubber paint also for the pond..

Hi Neli

If it is hard for you to find a professional product for this purpose, you can use beewax instead.

Cheers
Taner

Sakaki
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  adam1234 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:31 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Well we don't talk about Uncle Cecil much, and most Americans wouldn't get it.

are you related to Cecil Rhodes Billy? My understanding of him was that he was a colonialist who had quite some racist views.


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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Guest on Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:45 pm

Neli wrote:
How did You know?...

I travelled overland from Sweden to Cape town. It was quite a few years ago but I couldn't imagine Zambia making the effort to connect the two rail lines up, even after all of these years. Smile


Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Well we don't talk about Uncle Cecil much, and most Americans wouldn't get it.

If you only knew how you've made me laugh .... Laughing

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:16 pm

Sakaki wrote:
Neli wrote:Can I use bitumen or vaselin. Dont have any wood sealant here...What can I use? Have rubber paint also for the pond..

Hi Neli

If it is hard for you to find a professional product for this purpose, you can use beewax instead.

Cheers
Taner
That I can find thanks!

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:18 pm

Scion wrote:
Neli wrote:
How did You know?...

I travelled overland from Sweden to Cape town. It was quite a few years ago but I couldn't imagine Zambia making the effort to connect the two rail lines up, even after all of these years. Smile


Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Well we don't talk about Uncle Cecil much, and most Americans wouldn't get it.

If you only knew how you've made me laugh .... Laughing

AFRICA!!!!!!!

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:20 pm

adam1234 wrote:
Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Well we don't talk about Uncle Cecil much, and most Americans wouldn't get it.

are you related to Cecil Rhodes Billy? My understanding of him was that he was a colonialist who had quite some racist views.

Every one was a racist at those times...Not times have changed and so people did too. Hitler has also changed...

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:53 pm

My traceable ancestors came from the backwoods of North Carolina, USA to north Central Florida in the early 1800's. If there is any connection to Cecil it would be way back. I was just making a little joke. I am what is known as an educated redneck or cracker.
I grew up it the American South but my conservatism is tempered by education.
I taught the Social Sciences including History and Government. Although I never really focused on Africa, colonial or otherwise, I am aware of the problems of colonialism in Africa. I am also aware that many of the African countries had serious growing pains when the Europeans left.
Historically the US came late to colonialism and for the most part it went differently, but we still have Puerto Rico.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Sakaki on Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:48 pm

Neli

I've just checked your bougainvillea from every angle, but somehow I didnt like the lower-horizontal part (extending to the right on the ground) of your tree.
I selected the below picture as the front, and removed the part that I didn't like Smile (May be you use it separately to do a cascade bonsai)

Here is my front:




And here is my virt for you:






This is my poor taste of course Smile

P.S.: You can also carve the rear side and make it front, but I prefer this front since there is no branch in this side to use as back branches.
Good luck!
Taner

Sakaki
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:40 pm

I would worry about doing too much carving on a Bougie until you can protect the wood, a clear waterproof varnish will work.
BTW, I am traveling tomorrow, a drive of over 600 miles.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:29 am

Sakaki wrote:Neli

I've just checked your bougainvillea from every angle, but somehow I didnt like the lower-horizontal part (extending to the right on the ground) of your tree.
I selected the below picture as the front, and removed the part that I didn't like Smile (May be you use it separately to do a cascade bonsai)

Here is my front:




And here is my virt for you:






This is my poor taste of course Smile

P.S.: You can also carve the rear side and make it front, but I prefer this front since there is no branch in this side to use as back branches.
Good luck!
Taner
Taner,
No poor taste at all. Very sensible design...Not so hard for a newbie, and most of the branches are in place. Not too much work needed. Just to tapper/form the branches...but the base for them is there and sort out the roots/nebari. Am I too simplistic?
I think Bomsai is like Koi. There are many opinions oner the same thing.
Bonsai 4me says no upright formal is suitable for Bougie. An SA sight sais it is suitable????http://www.bonsaitree.co.za/knowledge/tree-care-guides/55-bougainvillea.html
that means I can do it, and the most important thing is that is the style I like best.
Will have to let the horizontal branch grow for now to get better roots ( I chopped most of them) and maybe some other ideas can come meanwhile.
But I am starting to remove the dead branches today and follow the virtual...That is the easiest for me to do since You have drawn all the branches so it will not be too hard for me.
Thanks!

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:37 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I would worry about doing too much carving on a Bougie until you can protect the wood, a clear waterproof varnish will work.
BTW, I am traveling tomorrow, a drive of over 600 miles.
Thanks Billy. Should I clean the soft part of the dead wood before I seal it?I mean remove the soft parts.
Where are You going BTW? Are You taking some pictures for Us? Make sure You do...

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:33 am

This is what i found for home made cut paste.
But none other than Colin Lewis does recommend plasticine mixed with a little vegetable oil to keep it soft as a viable alternative to the "real McCoy" Japanese cut paste.(can be expensive, can be hard to find and can be hard to know that you've got the right stuff sometimes)

The odd time I do seal a large wound, that's what I use, but it's only very occasional as I'm in the "don't seal a cut very often" school.

Bottom line - compromising on bonsai accessories is never going to improve your bonsai but it may save you a few bucks/pounds here and there.

Certain things are a must I would suggest like proper wire, decent tools and general good bonsai practice as recommended in most books.


Im usually in the "no cut paste" camp, and will sometimes with good results use plain old white glue. But there are some trees and situations that need a protective layer like cutpaste.

Has anyone ever tried shoe polish?
It was in one of the bonsai books I read.

I remember a painter saying he used elmers glue with a small amount of paint added to match the bark.
I'm not sure cut paste is all it's made out to be. I used to use it a lot, but don't mess with it to much now.

I frequently use dripped candle wax, especially on the larger pruned roots. I don't know if this is a no-no but my plants don't seem to care. I once used brownish acrylic paint on a large cut on an azalea branch but that was a mistake. The wound simply would not callouse.


There are many "specialty" products that have inflated price tags that the affluent love to flaunt. Cut paste is one that affects the bonsai community.
I am not an expert, but I'm also not a novice (1978). I have been using Elmers (carpenter) glue for those 27 years. I have had no problems. It does the job, and is not all that offensive looking. I have sprinkled sand on it, at times, while wet, and a friend has went so far as to place pieces of bark on the wet glue. Looks good and lasts for years. I have a Chin. Quince that I have had for over 10 years. I have been working on a huge root mass for all this time I am now about to address the top (I have already taken two airlayers off of it). Previous owner had used cut pa$te quite extensivly... and it is UGLY. I will post a photo in the gallery. After three major root reductions,it still is in a too big pot, but I want to start up on the top now that I'm done with the airlayering. I WILL be using Elmers Carpenter glue.

I use elmers glue and cut paste just depends on the situation, which one is closest. Both work very well, elmers glue is easier to hid the wound with a little dirt, sand, paint, or bark added to the glue before it dries.

I use Crayola modeling clay, it works great. If you are using kids clay that will harden, put in some oil, if it is a non hardening clay, thats all you need. Just mix the colors to make a color that blends in!! Oh, its $1 a pound.

I think i read in one of my books that you can use clay(not like modeling clay like the clay you dont wanna find if you need to dig somewhere), or mud mixed almost to a paste. and sometimes mixed with shoe polish if needed for color, or growth hormone to help heal.
i have never used this but its worth a try. I cant really see it being harmfull to a plant.

Mix equal amounts of candle wax and vegetable oil together.
Melt it in an old saucepan inside a container sitting on boiling water. Take the container out of the saucepan when it is melted and leave it to cool until its like slippery gloop when you stir it. Add some ground cinnamon as a fungicide and colouring. Then get a whisk and whisk it for a few minutes until it is fluffy like chocolate mousse and not warm when you touch it. You can put it in a jar and use it when you need to. Dip your fingers in water before you use it because it is a bit sticky.


Anyway, I tripped over this site in the hopes of finding a homemade preparation.
If it's simply a clay, I have some Pescalite sitting in my bathroom I'll just mix up with water or oil and use (Pescalite is a bentonite clay in powder form used for its antiseptic qualities). Thanks again!

I just slapped some super glue on a branch I cut off. It was kind of difficult to work with, but so far there's been no infection, which was my biggest fear. I just hope it'll come off when I need it to.

????????

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Sakaki on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:57 am

Neli wrote:
Taner,
No poor taste at all. Very sensible design...Not so hard for a newbie, and most of the branches are in place. Not too much work needed. Just to tapper/form the branches...but the base for them is there and sort out the roots/nebari. Am I too simplistic?
I think Bomsai is like Koi. There are many opinions oner the same thing.
Bonsai 4me says no upright formal is suitable for Bougie. An SA sight sais it is suitable????http://www.bonsaitree.co.za/knowledge/tree-care-guides/55-bougainvillea.html
that means I can do it, and the most important thing is that is the style I like best.
Will have to let the horizontal branch grow for now to get better roots ( I chopped most of them) and maybe some other ideas can come meanwhile.
But I am starting to remove the dead branches today and follow the virtual...That is the easiest for me to do since You have drawn all the branches so it will not be too hard for me.
Thanks!

Nice to hear that you like my virt.
I used the existing branches of your tree in my virt, so it is easy to understand Smile But of course it may not be realistic as I never saw your tree in 3D!
This is a possibility, but you should review all other possibilities to be offered by others especially pros. & also listen to your inspiration!
Design, shapes, forms etc. are all tastes, and tastes differ Smile

Actually I could select the back side as front, but that side has some branches that you can use for depth effect. This side had no branch for this purpose, so I selected this front.
If your future plan does not include the big horizontal trunk, I suggest you to get rid of it since it may absorp the tree's power.
Just clean the tree, select the main branches to be used, remove dead branches, shorten unnecessary branches and review the tree again Smile
And let it recover for 1-2 years before you do any styling, advanced or heavy operations. Be careful when wiring, bougainvillea is very sensitive to bendings, its branches are not so flexible & easy to break and split.
And also use a suitable soil mixture next year when repotting.

Good luck
Taner

Sakaki
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:19 pm

Sakaki wrote:
Neli wrote:
Taner,
No poor taste at all. Very sensible design...Not so hard for a newbie, and most of the branches are in place. Not too much work needed. Just to tapper/form the branches...but the base for them is there and sort out the roots/nebari. Am I too simplistic?
I think Bomsai is like Koi. There are many opinions oner the same thing.
Bonsai 4me says no upright formal is suitable for Bougie. An SA sight sais it is suitable????http://www.bonsaitree.co.za/knowledge/tree-care-guides/55-bougainvillea.html
that means I can do it, and the most important thing is that is the style I like best.
Will have to let the horizontal branch grow for now to get better roots ( I chopped most of them) and maybe some other ideas can come meanwhile.
But I am starting to remove the dead branches today and follow the virtual...That is the easiest for me to do since You have drawn all the branches so it will not be too hard for me.
Thanks!

Nice to hear that you like my virt.
I used the existing branches of your tree in my virt, so it is easy to understand SmileThat is what I WHAT i LIKE BEST. i WAS GOING TO STRUGGLE TOO MUCH IF i HAD TO DO IT MYSELF. iT IS MY FEST OFFICIAL BONSAI. tHE BENJAMINA IS FOR TRAINING PURPOSES ONLY. But of course it may not be realistic as I never saw your tree in 3D!
This is a possibility, but you should review all other possibilities to be offered by others especially pros. & also listen to your inspiration!
Design, shapes, forms etc. are all tastes, and tastes differ SmileI am scared of that horizontal branch...it looks too complicated for me to style...Maybe later when I gain confidence and knowledge...I have plenty plants to dig from the garden. I am also going to chop my tamarind tree but will leave it in the ground to thicken and get lower branches. It is 2m high.

Actually I could select the back side as front, but that side has some branches that you can use for depth effect. I dont understand this deapth effect and which is this branch so I dont cut it by accident?This side had no branch for this purpose, so I selected this front.???? Hard to understand this one!
If your future plan does not include the big horizontal trunk, I suggest you to get rid of it since it may absorp the tree's power.
Just clean the tree, select the main branches to be used, remove dead branches, shorten unnecessary branches and review the tree again Smile
I will remove the dead branches first and look at it again. I wish I could visualize some use for that branch at the base...but I can not...so I will have to cut it to simplify my llife
And let it recover for 1-2 years before you do any styling, advanced or heavy operations. Be careful when wiring, bougainvillea is very sensitive to bendings, its branches are not so flexible & easy to break and split.
And also use a suitable soil mixture next year when repotting.

Good luck
Taner
Thanks tanner! I will report tomorrow on the cutting of the dead branches. and future plans after I look one more time at it.
But I love upright style...No1 for me.

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Sakaki on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:00 pm

Neli wrote:
I dont understand this deapth effect and which is this branch so I dont cut it by accident?
...???? Hard to understand this one!

Neli,

Bonsai trees are styled/shaped to have one or more branches at the backside of tree in order to arouse a feeling of 3D and depth.
When you look at the front side of tree, you feel (though you cannot clearly see due to trunk of tree) that there is/are also branch/es extending backward, so you know and feel that this is a 3D scene!

Take care
Taner

Sakaki
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:29 pm

OK! I got it now....Silly me! Thanks!

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:10 pm

Neli

Probably more information than you wanted but, old history teachers tend to ramble on.

We American's have a Holiday called Thanksgiving, (which by law is held on the fourth Thursday in November) where we celebrate a mythical meal between early settlers in what is now Massachusetts and the local Native Americans. On this holiday we consume large amounts of food, especially turkey, and prepare for another more recent American phenomenon called Black Friday, when everyone gets up early and storms into the stores for bargains, sometime the feeding frenzy of bargains actually results in people being trampled to death, We then come home for this experience and eat leftover turkey.
All of the above is the truth; you can't make this stuff up.
The term "Black Friday" comes from economics because some businesses begin to show a profit for the first time since the beginning of the year. (Black ink in a ledger means profit, Red ink means loss.)

Now my trip, Thanksgiving is a holiday where families assemble, so my wife and I drive to our daughter's home for the Holiday, we started doing this when she and her husband lived about 45 miles away, now they live over 600 miles away, we leave at about 3 AM and drive about ten hours. We live near the Space Center in Florida (actually if you find the space shuttle launch pads on Google Earth, we live about 12 miles due west.) Our daughter currently lives in Chapel Hill, NC, which is home to the University of North Carolina. We usually drive up the Tuesday before Thanksgiving (see above) and return home the Tuesday after.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:22 am

Thats lovely Blly!
I get Yahoo news so I saw there about the black friday...and know about the thanks giving and the turkey...I am sure it is a lovely holiday and it has to be spend with family. Thanks for the explanation, and have the best of the best time. Dont eat too much turkey...he he he!
Let Us know if You stormed a store and if You managed to get something good. Hope You will not get injured.
I saw pictures of a woman sleeping at Wallmart for 3 days before the sale...he he he! Hope they will leave something good for You.

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  leatherback on Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:52 am

the question comes to mind.. Is black Friday also a discount day for Bonsai traders, and do people opush and shove to get to the best trees, accidentally ripping trees in two while fighting over them?



Black friday comes from the ink? not from the black eyes? Very Happy

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:29 pm

Can People really scoop so low over few dollars? I think it is embarassing to behave like that. Sorry! JMHO.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:47 pm

Neli wrote:Can People really scoop so low over few dollars? I think it is embarassing to behave like that. Sorry! JMHO.

The answer is YES. A lot of hype goes into this and a lot of people probably think they are getting better deals than they are.. But some places will have "doorbusters" where the prices will be really low, maybe as much as 50%, but there will be a limited supply, like 100 per store. So, only the first 100 get the deal.

Wal Mart especially gets a lot of attention for these things, and although I tend to favor Wal Mart myself, I don't exactly fit the demographic.

To tie this back to Bonsai, our Wal Mart will sometimes have usable Bonsai stock, in our area that would be Bougies and Junipers.

Billy

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:04 pm

But to fight over that??? O my! Hard to understand.
Is it only one day, or till stock lasts?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:09 pm

I just chopped my shefleras...some of the branches were as thick as my hand, and had roots. I planted some but most threw away. Never new it can be a bonsai. But here everything grows like crazy...so plenty material available.

Neli
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Re: First bonsai help needed

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