First bonsai help needed

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:11 pm

Neli wrote:But to fight over that??? O my! Hard to understand.
Is it only one day, or till stock lasts?

Depends sometimes it until stock lasts, but with only a limited number per store, that is not an issue.

That is why you see the mob, pushing and shoving to get the few offered. Also why people camp out, although most Wal Marts are open 24 hours, so I don't get the camping.

Wal Mart and other large retailers here started Black Friday sales early this year. For example, Wal MArt had some deals at 8 PM Thursday night.

Retailer will sometimes have hourly specials, starting at 5 AM and soemthing new goes on sale each hour.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:17 pm

Interesting but not worth coming home with broken teeth! He he he!
I saw a documentary where people were killed.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Ashiod on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:46 am

Neli wrote:Interesting but not worth coming home with broken teeth! He he he!
I saw a documentary where people were killed.

It's been known to happen. I'm going to sound like a terrible person, but it seems like natural selection at its finest to me.

As for bonsai stock, I'm coming to like Home Depot for their 75% off deals on trees and shrubs in the fall. Certainly not the greatest quality material, but it's good to practice on if you're still new like me.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:03 am

Ash,
I suspect they dont fight for the bonsai...He he he! Do They?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Ashiod on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:39 am

Nope, part of the reason I like Home Depot so much. No jail time involved in getting what I want(cheap material to learn on). The same material(factoring in size, taper, surface roots, health, and foliage) that would have cost me $50+ (usd) at a nursery only cost me 1-8, cant beat that when you're likely to kill a few things Very Happy .

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:05 am

I know what You mean. I plan to kill lots of them too! Learning is not easy.
I chopped today two trees in the garden half way with an axle blade. They are over two meters but very straight trunks. I want them to shoot bellow the cut and will chop them finally.
One is a tamarind, the otherone is johannesburg gol...both the same size.

Planted the little fig also over a tile.
Trying to landscape the yard next door also. That is the yard for my new pond . It is formal so I want the garden to be formal also.


Did a lot of gardening today...he he he! That is my finger did it...pointing at plants.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:24 pm

I separated today the branch from the bougie and planted it....It had only one tap root. Not sure if it will survive, but if it foes I will make it semi cascade style.
Took new pictures...still trying to figure out if there is a better front that Taner chose. Looked at lots of pictures of bonsai trying to figure out if forward branches in the apex are allowed....not too sure???? Is it?
After I finally decide on the leader for the apex I will chop some branches that are too long and too thick.
So here it is again after chopping the two bottom branches.














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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:44 pm

This side has a nice movement (???? bending from left to right), what bothers me with this is that the leader branch for the apex is pointing here forward, plus two other major branches are also pointing forward and the branches on the left are not at very good position...(not where I would like them to be.
I guess I can chop the leader branch and since it is a part of the future apef, let a branch grow on the opposite side to make a bend for the apex. (cut and bend technique???)

This is the side Taner likes, and I agree it is very nice, but if U look from this side the trunk on the right has somewhat inverse tapper (right behind the branch I cut..If that branch is eventually curved out...the inward bent will be more pronounced..and to correct it will be hard.

This is another possible side to consider, but here the vertical branch needs to be cut, so the view is evaluated better, since that branch is hiding a deep split in the stem. The base of the trunk is at its widest here.





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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:59 pm

What do You think? first or second picture for a front?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:39 pm

I think I like the first picture, but remember bougies back bud everywhere, so cutting back heavy is not a problem.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Andrew Legg on Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:57 pm

Hi Neli,

I just want to say that I find your enthusiasm absolutely fantastic and so refreshing!!!! My mother grew up in Kitwi, but I have lived in Cape Town all my life, so don't know that part of Africa. I have travelled more in other continents than in Africa which in some ways is sad. I think I must correct this once my children are a little older!

Let me know if you are ever in Cape Town and I'll happily show you around the bonsai world down here!

Warm Regards,

Andrew

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:52 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I think I like the first picture, but remember bougies back bud everywhere, so cutting back heavy is not a problem.
Thanks Billy, I tthink it has advantages also but still want to walk around it few hundred times (he he he!) and decide finally. When U are not sure You are not sure! Chopping is easy but growing branches back that You chopped by mistake is hard. And I think I am at that stage! Silly me!
I like the movement in the first picture, but I think I will need to grow few branches to the left or decide on a more unusual style.
So This is going to be Billy's side for future reference, He he he!

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:00 pm

Andrew Legg wrote:Hi Neli,

I just want to say that I find your enthusiasm absolutely fantastic and so refreshing!!!! My mother grew up in Kitwi, but I have lived in Cape Town all my life, so don't know that part of Africa. I have travelled more in other continents than in Africa which in some ways is sad. I think I must correct this once my children are a little older!

Let me know if you are ever in Cape Town and I'll happily show you around the bonsai world down here!

Warm Regards,

Andrew
Hi Andrew, it is Kitwe...He he he! I was ones in CT...for a short while, hired a car and drove around like fly without a head.
I go often to JBG, we have a house in Sundton...just so that we have where to stay when there.The kids are there often, I go ones or twice a year, and never miss the Koi show. Dont invite me..he he he!...I can come very easily. I have a Koi friend Collin a contractor in CT. He collects bromeliads and grows small monkeys..mormosets????or something like that.But You are almost a neighbour, though CT climate is different ...winter rains???? We are more like Jbg. Nice to have You here.But if You should decide to visit...my home is your home.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  noodledude on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 am

This is a wonderful thread, with a lot of good questions(most of which i had too, and the others i just hadn't thought of yet). Thank you. I dont know much yet, but ive heard several times that you want the apex of the tree to "bow" toward you a bit. Maybe the branches coming toward you at the top are okay????? Like i said, i dont know much either. Just tossing in a thought.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:58 am

noodledude wrote:This is a wonderful thread, with a lot of good questions(most of which i had too, and the others i just hadn't thought of yet). Thank you. I dont know much yet, but ive heard several times that you want the apex of the tree to "bow" toward you a bit. Maybe the branches coming toward you at the top are okay????? Like i said, i dont know much either. Just tossing in a thought.

Right, as though the tree was hugging or reaching out to you, a welcoming gesture. (Not to overdone)

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:12 pm

noodledude wrote:This is a wonderful thread, with a lot of good questions(most of which i had too, and the others i just hadn't thought of yet). Thank you. I dont know much yet, but ive heard several times that you want the apex of the tree to "bow" toward you a bit. Maybe the branches coming toward you at the top are okay????? Like i said, i dont know much either. Just tossing in a thought.
Hi ND, I am just like you...total newbie!
But I have also learned something from You...I saw somewhere the bonsai top is supposed to lean backwards...I guess I did not understand it...or got confused. I was just about to ask if some of the branches on the apex can come forward...U helped me.
Now did I see something about bonsai leaning backwards or I have imagined it.
So now that solves a problem for me...the leader branch is going a bit forward, so I dont need to worry about that, but I have one branch almost at the apex that is pointing me in the face. Is that OK or not...or that is a hugging branch also?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:18 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:
noodledude wrote:This is a wonderful thread, with a lot of good questions(most of which i had too, and the others i just hadn't thought of yet). Thank you. I dont know much yet, but ive heard several times that you want the apex of the tree to "bow" toward you a bit. Maybe the branches coming toward you at the top are okay????? Like i said, i dont know much either. Just tossing in a thought.

Right, as though the tree was hugging or reaching out to you, a welcoming gesture. (Not to overdone)
Billy thanks! Now is a branch allowed to point forward, and if yes at what hight it is allowed to point forward? Did I misunderstood that branches are not supposed to poke You in the face? Or do they mean branches on the trunk?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:18 pm

An "eye poking" branch is usually a bad thing. Unless it is part of the canopy.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:22 pm

A desirable characteristic of a bonsai is that we can trace the trunk line to the top, without interruption by a branch; this makes the tree look taller than it might be.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:37 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:A desirable characteristic of a bonsai is that we can trace the trunk line to the top, without interruption by a branch; this makes the tree look taller than it might be.
Thanks So I saw it but did not understand it. So in the canopy it is OK. Good!
Now what do You mean trace the trunk to the top? Up to where the canopy starts? Where does the trunk officially ends? where the leaves start?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:52 pm

OK, there has been discussion of a triangle with the apex of the triangle at the top of the tree, this apex usually has a canopy of foliage, we want to trace the trunk until we reach that canopy of foliage.

This tree is from one of our club shows, it is a Willow Leaf Fig, Ficus salisicaria, notice how the trunk line moves up toward the canopy, and there meets an eye poking branch, but since there is only foliage above that point (you can't see the trunk) it is OK. This is NOT my tree, just one from my photo files.


Last edited by Billy M. Rhodes on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added information)

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:06 pm

I sort of understood Billy. Are some rules in bonsai made to be broken? It is not a very exact thing I think?

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:36 am

Neli wrote:I sort of understood Billy. Are some rules in bonsai made to be broken? It is not a very exact thing I think?

Right, Bonsai is about what make you happy.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  Neli on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:04 am

Then I noticed some people call bonsai art some craft. I am not sure if any thing made with rules can be called art. Freedom of creation for me equals art.
There might be horticultural demands to be considered regarding the plant for it is a leaving thing but when it comes to styling Guide lines helping to make it appear more natural are OK, but not rules.
Am I getting it or I am too simplistic?
I think trunk and nebary development is an achievement, and therefore is left exposed to be enjoyed???

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Re: First bonsai help needed

Post  leatherback on Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:52 am

Hm.. Art has no rules? I don't think I agree there. Even if you set some rules there is a lot of freedo. But most rules in Bonsai are guidelines I'd say. There is this rule that states that a tree should be no taller than 6 times the trunk diameter. Yet, if you look at trees, you find spectacular bonsai which do not meet the rule. The same for not allowing to have T-bar branches, inverse taper. The art is in creating a tree that leaves the impression of an old weather tree, which is also pleasing to the eye. How you reach that point is normally not the question.

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Re: First bonsai help needed

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