Which Front

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Which Front

Post  Peter E. on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:25 pm

I rescued this little tree from a Bonsai buddy earlier this year.
He had a bad re-potting year a while ago and lost a few trees.
This was one that he planted back in the ground and then lost interest.
I lifted it in the spring with a view to resurerecting it back to a Bonsai.
I would appreaciate your choice on which would be the best front to develope this tree further.
Top of dead wood 20cm / 8"

url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=152&u=14866381][/url]





It would be great if you could explain your choice. Don't hold back on your views. I am old and have a very THICK skin. Smile

Peter E.
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Re: Which Front

Post  John Lee on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:30 pm

I am no expert at this, still just a novice, but I like the second photo. It just seems more balanced to me with the foliage on one side and the jin on the other.

Just my two cents, hope it helps.

John

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Re: Which Front

Post  MikeG on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:37 pm

I would go for 3. I don't like the large section sticking straight up in the second photo. I actually find it distracting and unbalanced. The first is alright too, but the 3rd one has the best movement. Just my humble opinion. I can see why you're having a hard time deciding. Great little tree.

MikeG
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Re: Which Front

Post  Rick36 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:46 pm

Hi Peter. That is Acer Campestre, right? FWIW, and although I have no trained artistic view I like the third picture. It is just an instinctive reaction and I'll be very interested to see other opinions from folks with experience and/or "the eye".
I like Field Maples, possibly because they seem relatively easy to grow in captivity. Do you have others in your collection?
Cheers. Rick.

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Re: Which Front

Post  Smithy on Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:48 pm

I like the second pic , i see it as couple of trees clinging onto a mountain. Is that what you are going to develop it like or have you other plans.

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Re: Which Front

Post  0soyoung on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:03 pm

For me, the tree itself is most pleasing in the first photo. However, I absolutely hate the pot with the tree; i.e., it is discordant with, rather than complimentary of, the tree, IMHO. It is a very nice pot, but its colors are wrong (its art, right?) and it needs to be wider to balance the height of the dead trunk.

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Re: Which Front

Post  GašperG on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:22 pm

Hi Peter,

I would say your first front looks like the one to me ... I am not saying the other two do not look suitable for a front, it is a thing of what you want the three to look like ... as Smithy said the last one reminds him of a couple of trees clinging onto a mountain, the second one looks like a single tree doing the same thing...
I like it either way and very nice rescue btw. thumbs up

GašperG
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Re: Which Front

Post  JimLewis on Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:26 pm

Of course, a round pot "solves" the question about the "front."

Any one of them would be fine.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Which Front

Post  JudyB on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:02 pm

I like it from #1 the best, but I couldn't tell you why... #2 is good as well.
I agree that the pot distracts a bit.

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Re: Which Front

Post  will baddeley on Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 pm

Whatever your choice of front is, this tree needs a much larger pot or box to develop and refine the branches and ramification. Too many trees are transferred to bonsai pots too early in their development.

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which front

Post  moyogijohn on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:58 am

Only my opion,, I would use #3 as my front.. my reason is you see more foliage and i think it looks balenced that way....take care john

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Re: Which Front

Post  Sakaki on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:31 am

I see that all three pics have been recommened as front by members.
Does it mean that tree is not ready for front selection or it is too early/late to think on it?
I recall some bonsai masters say "if you cannot decide for front, it is either too early for this selection or you are too late."
Can someone please clarify this issue?

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Re: Which Front

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:55 am

what a peculiar Acer Campestre, very unusual.
i like it and i dont like it, but the first feeling is more dominant haha.

The first picture! Why? simply because it looks like its a mini tree in a pot-in-pot, by which i mean the trunk itself looks a bit like those crescent pots. If you have some imagination

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Re: Which Front

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:18 pm

Sakaki wrote:Does it mean that tree is not ready for front selection or it is too early/late to think on it?
I recall some bonsai masters say "if you cannot decide for front, it is either too early for this selection or you are too late."
Good question.

For me it is too early. The dominant feature is the deadwood but it needs work...depending on how it is brought out, it can highly impact the chosen front. JMHO.

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Re: Which Front

Post  will baddeley on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:30 pm

Poink88 wrote:
Sakaki wrote:Does it mean that tree is not ready for front selection or it is too early/late to think on it?
I recall some bonsai masters say "if you cannot decide for front, it is either too early for this selection or you are too late."
Good question.

For me it is too early. The dominant feature is the deadwood but it needs work...depending on how it is brought out, it can highly impact the chosen front. JMHO.

It isn't too early to choose a front now. Your making it sound like once a front is chosen it can never be changed? As a tree develops you are allowed to change your mind and even the back can become a front. Just be mindful to design bonsai to look good from any angle. Just like trees in nature. Smile

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Re: Which Front

Post  leatherback on Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:48 pm

will baddeley wrote:Just be mindful to design bonsai to look good from any angle. Just like trees in nature. Smile

This makes me think about a discussion I read somewhere in another forum on the proper forming of a tree; Someone coming up with a whole set of rules: Have the first branch on 1/3, right hand side of the tree. Then move up so much, and place one at 45 degrees to the back etcetc.

Happy to see you post this alternative view; A tree is allowed to be a tree with a nice pleasant feel to it from any side. [In other words: Guidelines should be guidelines and not rules set in stone; Natural or Artistic balance should be the aim?]

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Re: Which Front

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:04 pm

will baddeley wrote:
Poink88 wrote:
Good question.

For me it is too early. The dominant feature is the deadwood but it needs work...depending on how it is brought out, it can highly impact the chosen front. JMHO.

It isn't too early to choose a front now. Your making it sound like once a front is chosen it can never be changed? As a tree develops you are allowed to change your mind and even the back can become a front. Just be mindful to design bonsai to look good from any angle. Just like trees in nature. Smile
Will, I am not saying that at all, I change mine even on their training pot exactly as you pointed out...sometimes the back becomes the front. I too aim for the tree to be nice looking from all around but there is still the best side and that (at least in my case) ultimately is chosen as the front.

In this case, the tree (for me) doesn't have that dominating feature to be chosen as the front yet so any of the 3 shown can be for now. What I am saying is that the deadwood work will ultimately tip the scale. JMHO

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Re: Which Front

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:28 pm

leatherback wrote:
will baddeley wrote:Just be mindful to design bonsai to look good from any angle. Just like trees in nature. Smile

This makes me think about a discussion I read somewhere in another forum on the proper forming of a tree; Someone coming up with a whole set of rules: Have the first branch on 1/3, right hand side of the tree. Then move up so much, and place one at 45 degrees to the back etcetc.

Happy to see you post this alternative view; A tree is allowed to be a tree with a nice pleasant feel to it from any side. [In other words: Guidelines should be guidelines and not rules set in stone; Natural or Artistic balance should be the aim?]

yes, the 'proper' forming, that sounds like do the hucklebuck...one step left, one step right... (surely thats not the hucklebuck but you get it).
'Proper', that just sends shivers down my spine. But thats only me offcourse

Guest
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Re: Which Front

Post  leatherback on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:41 pm

yves71277 wrote:
yes, the 'proper' forming, that sounds like do the hucklebuck...one step left, one step right... (surely thats not the hucklebuck but you get it).
'Proper', that just sends shivers down my spine. But thats only me offcourse

Let's dance Very Happy

http://www.cutebonsaitree.com/branch-rules.html

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Re: Which Front

Post  leatherback on Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:45 pm

Just noticed I have only replied to replies, and not to the actual tree.

Personally, I feel Nr 2 would be a nice front for now. The main reason.. You get to see the nice second section of trunc/bark as well. In the future I could see the tree fill up the 'shell shaped' old trunk and enveloping the old deadwood feature. Perhaps even poke one or two branches through the deadwood after carving it a bit.


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Re: Which Front

Post  Peter E. on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:32 pm

Wow.!!!
I wasn't expecting that sort of responce.
Thank you all for your comments and discussions.
Funny how a simple little thing can provoke such interest. Difficult to reply to everboby personally so i will just give my views to the comments so far.

I tried to make the design interesting from as many angles as i could with what was available to me.
The new growth is from the base so i am using the old trunk to give the quality of an old tree.
I know that if i grow the tree in a larger container, or even plant it in the ground for a couple of years, it will develop quicker,but i am in no hurry.
I am quite happy to watch this little one grow over the next 10 years.
The current pot was what was available at the time and is not the finished one.
Oh, yes, it is Acer campestre, and i intend to keep the foliage below the top of the trunk.

Current favourite front is 2.

Start

1st pot

Back

Peter E.
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Re: Which Front

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