Privet from a hedge

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Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:45 pm

I saw an old man trying to dig up his hedge so i offered to dig it up for free if i could have a few pieces. He was over the moon as he was 75 years old. I got a few pieces out of it. Here is a privet i got out of it . I have done some basic carving and some wiring on it . More carving to do when i get some better tools.









Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  chris on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:28 pm

Very nice start Neil, I've been sortting out some of the trees I had of you last weekend

Regards chris

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Poink88 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:24 pm

Nice stock. Have you considered reducing the top a bit more? You have 3 major branches that though carved, still create a congested feel where they converge. I myself cannot decide which to remove but I think something (1 or 2) has got to go. Maybe the middle and left?

Your current front also shows a major reverse taper. Personally I can see a better movement from your first pic though the nebari might not be the best. You can remove the main branch (or trunk) on the back, leaving the one going to the left. Like this maybe?


or this?


Good luck!

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:55 pm

chris wrote:Very nice start Neil, I've been sortting out some of the trees I had of you last weekend

Regards chris

Thanks Chris, hope you can get something out of the trees .

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:00 pm

Poink88 wrote:Nice stock. Have you considered reducing the top a bit more? You have 3 major branches that though carved, still create a congested feel where they converge. I myself cannot decide which to remove but I think something (1 or 2) has got to go. Maybe the middle and left?

Your current front also shows a major reverse taper. Personally I can see a better movement from your first pic though the nebari might not be the best. You can remove the main branch (or trunk) on the back, leaving the one going to the left. Like this maybe?

Good luck!

Hi Dario , no i haven't considered reducing the top more. I don't feel that any of the trunks 'has to go'.

I'm trying to emulate the trees i see locally here and they don't grow with just one trunk and perfect taper. I'm trying to get it to look like a tree and not a bonsai. the front i have chosen has the most interest as the front you like is very boring . Also i see many trees with reverse taper as they have big boles up the trunk .
I guess this is how i see trees .
Thanks for commenting. Very Happy

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Poink88 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:13 pm

We all have our personal preferences so as long as it makes us happy, it is good! Smile cheers

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Andre Beaurain on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:24 am

Smithy I think your tree is amazing.
And your design is perfect, its going to be a fantastic tree. In a few years it will look like one of Yvonne's amazing shonin trees

Good on you for helping the Eldery Gentlemen! Like a Star @ heaven

Andre Beaurain
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Sakaki on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:52 am

Poink88 wrote:Nice stock. Have you considered reducing the top a bit more? You have 3 major branches that though carved, still create a congested feel where they converge. I myself cannot decide which to remove but I think something (1 or 2) has got to go. Maybe the middle and left?

Your current front also shows a major reverse taper. Personally I can see a better movement from your first pic though the nebari might not be the best. You can remove the main branch (or trunk) on the back, leaving the one going to the left. Like this maybe?


or this?


Good luck!

I agree with Dario.
That reverse taper does not seem good to me. But this is personal taste of course Smile
Good luck Smithy.

Sakaki
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Rick36 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:12 pm

Hi Smithy! I agree with you re-the shape of some trees and therefore your plan for this privet. It would be great to have a bigger nebari to balance, but in its absence you still have a fine beginning. There are a number of old oaks that show exactly these characteristics.
BTW - not so much of the "elderly"!!! 75 is the new 55 nowadays, and some of us are still capable. Laughing bounce

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:38 pm

Andre Beaurain wrote:Smithy I think your tree is amazing.
And your design is perfect, its going to be a fantastic tree. In a few years it will look like one of Yvonne's amazing shonin trees

Good on you for helping the Eldery Gentlemen! Like a Star @ heaven

Thanks Andre ,im glad you like it.

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:47 pm


I agree with Dario.
That reverse taper does not seem good to me. But this is personal taste of course Smile
Good luck Smithy.[/quote]
Hi Sakaki

Yes i guess it is taste . I have gone and look at Darios idea as i'm always open to things but it does nothing for me to lose half the tree. It loses all the feature of a real tree. The bottom of the trunk will be hollowed out and widened in time so will give the look of being wider if that helps the ones that are bothered by the inverse taper Very Happy

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:52 pm

Rick36 wrote:Hi Smithy! I agree with you re-the shape of some trees and therefore your plan for this privet. It would be great to have a bigger nebari to balance, but in its absence you still have a fine beginning. There are a number of old oaks that show exactly these characteristics.
BTW - not so much of the "elderly"!!! 75 is the new 55 nowadays, and some of us are still capable. Laughing bounce

Hi Rick ,
Thanks for the comments , yes a better nebari would be a real bonus and would have made the tree even better but i guess you can't have everything.

The older than me gentleman was still capable but very happy to not have to do it. Sounds like you can still dig like a 55 year old , hope i still can then Very Happy

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  JudyB on Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:16 pm

Hey Smithy, I see what you see...
I'll be looking forward to the updates once you open up the bottom hollow trunk. It already is looking like some nice carving happening...

JudyB
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Orion on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:44 pm

Smithy I like your idea for this too. The material reminds me of those so very old oaks you guys have over there.

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  adam1234 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi Smithy,

I like your tree and the carving will enhance it even more. The carving at the bottom will add interest to the lower half, may be to the extent of removing bother to those who notice the reverse taper. In my experience it is difficult to get privets with good nebari. The way I understand these privets is that many trunks form from the base and fuse, and, depending on where they fuse a bulge forms. If you remove half the tree as suggested then consider that throughout its life your tree might experience some rot and you eventually might end up with very little having removed half. However, it is my personal taste of liking deadwood that I like shrubs and small trees to be as loud and arty as possible carved with alot of deadwood and sparse foliage to the extent where the tree looks more like a piece of art than a tree.

Nice little tree and good luck carving the tree Smithy.

Adam

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Oliver Muscio on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:23 pm

Smithy, I like where you are headed with this, just the way it is. I am growing a winged elm with a very similar trunk, with inverse taper and split just like yours (but it doesn't look as good as yours, I think). I still have hopes for it's future.
Oliver

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  marcus watts on Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:06 pm

many real trees show great age and character with reverse taper - many people with their heads stuck in the rule books can not cope with such imperfections - all bonsai do not have to fit into the mould to be good - some become greater because they are unique......if you think this is reverse taper wait until i post proper pics of my latest juniper - arm thick base, thigh thick trunk - but probably close to 500 years of hardship clinging to mont blanc

.....great start m8, hollow it more in time rather than just tease it Wink

cheers Marcus

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:40 am

Hi Smithy

I collected a similar shaped tree ( acer campestre ) in the winter 2011....it also, like yours had a inverted taper. After working on my tree, leaving sacrificebranches, and taking out branches, that only would grow the flaw more prominent, is it already now showing signs of becomming a nice tree

Your tree...

The branch with black, will make the flaw more prominent...I would take it out....The branch with red, can be a usefull sacrificebranch, it must then be grown strong and long, as long as it takes, renew every year, or maybe only every second, it depends on the sice of scar, and if it is visible from the front...It can later also be kept as the first branch.... on an ideal tree, is the lowest branches more thick ...maybe there are branches on the backside, who also needs something done to them, to eventully make the tree nice....no need to keep, highlight, and grow a inverted taper stronger Smile .

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:39 am

JudyB wrote:Hey Smithy, I see what you see...
I'll be looking forward to the updates once you open up the bottom hollow trunk. It already is looking like some nice carving happening...

Hi Judy
Thanks

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:40 am

Orion wrote:Smithy I like your idea for this too. The material reminds me of those so very old oaks you guys have over there.

Hi Orion
Thanks , yes its what inspired me as its the trees i see a lot of.

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:45 am

adam1234 wrote:Hi Smithy,

I like your tree and the carving will enhance it even more. The carving at the bottom will add interest to the lower half, may be to the extent of removing bother to those who notice the reverse taper. In my experience it is difficult to get privets with good nebari. The way I understand these privets is that many trunks form from the base and fuse, and, depending on where they fuse a bulge forms. If you remove half the tree as suggested then consider that throughout its life your tree might experience some rot and you eventually might end up with very little having removed half. However, it is my personal taste of liking deadwood that I like shrubs and small trees to be as loud and arty as possible carved with alot of deadwood and sparse foliage to the extent where the tree looks more like a piece of art than a tree.

Nice little tree and good luck carving the tree Smithy.

Adam

Thanks Adam
Yes all the privets i've got don't have great nebari , a few i've got i've had to cut off with a saw as the trunk goes right down to into the ground. There is usually just a few roots on the tree to get it going again. I know what you mean about having something loud and arty with little foliage , i have a couple which are planned like that but if i see one looking like a tree then i go with it.

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:46 am

Oliver Muscio wrote:Smithy, I like where you are headed with this, just the way it is. I am growing a winged elm with a very similar trunk, with inverse taper and split just like yours (but it doesn't look as good as yours, I think). I still have hopes for it's future.
Oliver

Hi Oliver
Thanks and good luck with your elm , maybe we could see how its getting along.

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:49 am

marcus watts wrote:many real trees show great age and character with reverse taper - many people with their heads stuck in the rule books can not cope with such imperfections - all bonsai do not have to fit into the mould to be good - some become greater because they are unique......if you think this is reverse taper wait until i post proper pics of my latest juniper - arm thick base, thigh thick trunk - but probably close to 500 years of hardship clinging to mont blanc

.....great start m8, hollow it more in time rather than just tease it Wink

cheers Marcus

Thanks Marcus,
Good words, look forward to seeing yours.
I will attack mine again when i get some bigger carving bits , i really do bonsai on a shoestring and can't afford the bits at the moment . I spent hours with my little weasal working away at this .

I would have said hello at Wales but i didn't want to stop you working . Very Happy

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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Smithy on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:56 am

Yvonne Graubaek wrote:Hi Smithy

I collected a similar shaped tree ( acer campestre ) in the winter 2011....it also, like yours had a inverted taper. After working on my tree, leaving sacrificebranches, and taking out branches, that only would grow the flaw more prominent, is it already now showing signs of becomming a nice tree

Your tree...

The branch with black, will make the flaw more prominent...I would take it out....The branch with red, can be a usefull sacrificebranch, it must then be grown strong and long, as long as it takes, renew every year, or maybe only every second, it depends on the sice of scar, and if it is visible from the front...It can later also be kept as the first branch.... on an ideal tree, is the lowest branches more thick ...maybe there are branches on the backside, who also needs something done to them, to eventully make the tree nice....no need to keep, highlight, and grow a inverted taper stronger Smile .

Kind regards Yvonne

Hi Yvonne, good words and yes your right. All the bottom branches i will let grow out and thicken up. I agree about that branch making the bulge worse. I have been out and looked at that branch and the trouble is the bulge is the bit i like about the tree . Its the part that makes it different . I shall think about it over the winter.

Smithy
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Re: Privet from a hedge

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:57 am

Hi Smithy

The bulge will still be there...it will just not grow stronger

Kind regards Yvonne...loking forward to see what you decide to do Smile

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Re: Privet from a hedge

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