De-candle black pine

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De-candle black pine

Post  Carolee on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:31 pm

I have a Japanese Black Pine I received in a workshop last summer. I haven't done anything with it, except feed, etc. I've been reading up on the process of shaping and removing the candles. I now know that the candles should be removed in the late spring (according to Naka, Techniques I, and other sources), and then again in late fall.

My question: Since I didn't do anything in the spring, do I leave it alone until next spring, or should I go ahead and remove candles now?

Its growth is strong with a flush of new needles on all the branches, and the branches are still rather close to the trunk. I'm going for a bunjun style.

Thanks!

Carolee
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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  marcus watts on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:50 pm

it all depends on what stage your tree is, and what you are trying to achieve. candle removal makes more buds further in, and smaller buds and needles on the branch ends, so if you are trying to still grow primary and secondary branches to size you need to let certain candles grow.

I would also suggest looking at some more up to date blog info sites such as Peter Tea, Jonas etc they have great up to date BP info. Re the naka book - - removing 2 flushes of growth is only done in prime locations with very long growing seasons - and more importantly on very settled, strong trees. There isnt a black and white formulae you can apply to your entire tree, top to bottom, outside to inside really - a good workshop teacher will explain the zones of your tree, whether it is in formation, first refinement, or is ready to move to the next stage of fine refinement.

Pop up a picture if you can - it will be easier to suggest help for specific areas of your tree.

cheers Marcus

marcus watts
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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  cbobgo on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:55 pm

Most folks these days only decandle once a year, usually end of June or early July.

Posting a pic of your tree would help us to know if it is really ready for decandeling.

- bob

cbobgo
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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  Carolee on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:53 pm

Thanks, I'll get a pic up tomorrow afternoon.

Carolee
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Pictures of JBP

Post  Carolee on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:29 pm

This JBP was from a workshop on the literati style, and not on pines. It is the first pine for me. Most of the candles are at least an inch long, there are multiple one in the same areas. I couldn't get the best picture of the 'clumps'. I would appreciate your advice on removing the candles. From what I read on Peter Tea's site, I should probably wait until next summer. I would also take advice on shaping/design. The nearest study group (no clubs) is three hours away, and meets in the evening. Thanks so much!


Carolee
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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  Carolee on Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:34 pm

So although I've posted pics before, and re-read the instructions just in case, I seem to have failed at getting them up. So another try






Carolee
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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  cbobgo on Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:00 am

So, decandling techniques are primarily used to work on the secondary and tertiary branch structure - to get that fine twigginess and broad pads of foliage that are highly prized. generally, that work is done once the work on the trunk and primary branches is fairly complete.

So, I think it might be a bit premature to worry about decandling this pine. If you are styling this as a bunjin, you need to get some wire on the trunk and the primary branches to get some interesting movement, and get the branches placed in visually pleasing locations in relation to each other and the trunk. When that is done, and you know where you want the pads of foliage to be, then you can start working on the candles (at the appropriate time of year).

- bob

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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  marcus watts on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:13 am

thanks for the pictures.

it is fair to say the tree is still in the initial stages of development but a certain degree of candle pruning is needed otherwise it just grows into a tree.

Atm you have two very heavy branches at the top - one needs to go, the other becomes the extension of the trunk line and the pads will be grown from the buds on this new trunk. Being still a young vigourous tree several buds will form where the needles are in place too.

the bunjin you want is a tree of simplicity so get the trunk line first, then you can concentrate on working the bits that will be kept rather than working on bits of the tree that need cutting off. look at Owen Riechs blog for a few literati hints too, it is a good one to keep an eye on.

regards Marcus

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Re: De-candle black pine

Post  Carolee on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:58 pm

Thanks, I appreciate the help.

Carolee
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