a little help with pot maker please

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a little help with pot maker please

Post  marcus watts on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:23 pm

Hi,
I was looking for a classic pot for one of my large acers and decided on this one from my local bonsai nursery.

It is a cream oval, beautiful lines and has a chop mark / signature - I cant find the chop on the tokoname site and was just wondering if it looks familiar to anyone?

thanks for looking









cheers again for any info, i dont think it is very old but it is the perfect pot for my tree, glaze is forming very fine cracks but only visible up very close

Marcus

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Kakejiku on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:46 pm

Try 瀬戸 (Seto) region North Northeast of Tokoname...still in Aichi Prefecture.


Last edited by Kakejiku on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to put romanized reading next to Kanji.)

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:58 am

It's beautiful Marcus.

The closest I can get is "Haromatu" on the bonsaiplaza.com site, but the spelling's off. The chop doesn't match but the signature does. I think it's probably "Harumatsu".

Where's Ryan?

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Levi on Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:58 am

The characters in the square stamp are for "spring" and "pine" from left to right, i think it should be read right to left. I looked it up on my Chinese dictionary site and came up with these Japanese names of people.


Matsumoto Haruko

松本春子(1900-?);日本人,女书法家。



Shōshun

松春(姓,日本)



Matsuharu

松春(姓,日本)

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:57 pm




Levi wrote:The characters in the square stamp are for "spring" and "pine"...


Then that would indeed be Harumatsu.

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:33 pm

Russell Coker wrote:


Levi wrote:The characters in the square stamp are for "spring" and "pine"...


Then that would indeed be Harumatsu.
There are two readings for each character 春 can be read haru or Shun and 松 can be read matsu or Sho depending if one is using the Kun or On yomi...Usually when combined it would be Shunsho, but it being a name, one never can tell...

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Russell Coker on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:28 pm

Kakejiku wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:


Levi wrote:The characters in the square stamp are for "spring" and "pine"...


Then that would indeed be Harumatsu.
There are two readings for each character 春 can be read haru or Shun and 松 can be read matsu or Sho depending if one is using the Kun or On yomi...Usually when combined it would be Shunsho, but it being a name, one never can tell...

True, and that's all fine and dandy, but since the on the site listed it as "Haromatu" I think it's safe to say this is "Harumatsu". But, hey, "Shunsho" sounds good too!

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no need to get snippy...

Post  Kakejiku on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:06 pm

瀬戸品野の「春松陶園」水野作太郎の長男。
緑寿庵陶翠は春松の弟にあたる。
大正10年から後継者となり、植松陶翠の専属窯として鉢製作にあたった。
陶翠と春松の2つの落款が有る鉢は戦前の作品だといわれる。


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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  marcus watts on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:44 pm

i love this - its like searching for a picasso ! (nearly but not quite haha)

it seems like I have a pot made by:
Harumatsu Mizuno Saturo
older brother to: Tosui, teacher of Haruyoshi
Worked in Seto, Japan

i have found the signature on a few archived pots - but the chop is not showing up anywhere - I sent a pic to Ryan.........

Russel i think had it very accurate - thanks everyone

marcus

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  marcus watts on Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:46 pm

Kakejiku wrote:瀬戸品野の「春松陶園」水野作太郎の長男。
緑寿庵陶翠は春松の弟にあたる。
大正10年から後継者となり、植松陶翠の専属窯として鉢製作にあたった。
陶翠と春松の2つの落款が有る鉢は戦前の作品だといわれる。


I'd like to think this says exactly the same as my last post - that would be excelent, but if not............oh well........

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  nekotoban on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:21 pm

marcus watts wrote:
Kakejiku wrote:瀬戸品野の「春松陶園」水野作太郎の長男。
緑寿庵陶翠は春松の弟にあたる。
大正10年から後継者となり、植松陶翠の専属窯として鉢製作にあたった。
陶翠と春松の2つの落款が有る鉢は戦前の作品だといわれる。


I'd like to think this says exactly the same as my last post - that would be excelent, but if not............oh well........
Nearly but not the same.

it says: (Harumatsu is )Elder son of Sakutaro Mizuno 「Harumatsu Toen」at Shinano-chyou,Seto-city.
    Ryokujyuan -Tosui is his younger brother.
    Harumatsu became a successor in1921(Taisho 10) and started making pots as an exclusive kiln for Uematsu-Tosui.
    Pots with two signatures(Tosui and Harumatsu)are said the work before WW2.


In addition, 水野作太郎Sakutaro Mizuno is the first Harumatsu, the second is 水野春松Harumatsu Mizuno as mentioned above, the third is 水野一美Kazumi Mizuno who is a son of the second and a teacher of 春嘉Haruyoshi, finally the forth is 水野重男Shigeo Mizuno,a son of the third. Unfortunately the forth's son didnt succeed name of Harumatsu, so Harumatsu Toen had been closed.

The photo's chop is 緑巳斉(Rokumisai) used by the third Harumatsu(水野一美Kazumi Mizuno) in his late 60years.

I have found these information from Mr.Haruyoshi's website and a book called盆器大図鑑(Bonkidaizukan) published by Kindai-shuppan.

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Russell Coker on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:25 pm



Marcus, if you haven't already snapped up that beautiful pot you'd better get on it!

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

Post  Ryan B on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:23 am

All of the information about Harumatsu, mentioned by Nektoban above, is quite correct. Harumatsu is a taken name, a kiln brand, for half of the "Mizuno" family line, of three potters(as far as the named potter Mizuno Harumatsu) is the second generation potter, brother and uncle to Tosuis 1-3. Work from pots stamped and signed "Harumatsu" is variable, ranging from fairly modern(30 years or less?)cheap press molded pieces that run around 25$ to handmade pieces by 1st generation Harumatsu that often reach into the thousands. The kiln is especially known for larger pieces and Suibans. The signature is a pretty close match to several I have on file, but I've never seen the chop before, although we can all agree it says "Harumatsu". It doesn't match the stamps in any of the 7 potter books I have for 1st and 2nd generation Harumatsu, so I'm halfway certain it's 3rd. I asked a couple of professionals in Japan and all they could tell me was that it was Harumatsu, they didn't know the stamp either!
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: a little help with pot maker please

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