time for more galleries please

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Sakaki on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:45 pm

JimLewis wrote:
Sakaki wrote:Hi fiona

May I ask you if the gallery is only for finished trees or can we post our trees that are currently under progress?
What is the criteria for that?

There ARE no criteria. For anything. Post what you like or are proud of.

But why post yet-to-be bonsai there? That's what the Discussion or Questions forums are for. Why post a picture of something that's not finished?

Hi Jim,

Thank you for explanation BUT it is not my intention to post any YET-TO-BE BONSAI there, and never will be!
I asked that question as I saw some trees that are not finished but still in progress in gallery. That's all.

Thanks
Taner

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  GašperG on Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:55 pm

fiona wrote: why not pick your best two or three trees and put them on?

Maybe that should be the line to follow. ... finished and semi-finished bonsai should be the criteria (or not?) ... At least i think i can put together my own gallery of a tree or two in a year and there would be something to show...so starting with a bit older members with just a few years more of experience....?


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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  fiona on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:54 pm

The explanation of what can go in is in the sticky at the top of the Galleries forum.

HERE it is, to save you looking back.


I think we are getting worried unnecessarily; the forum will grow as soon as posters feel confident that they have a tree or trees that they'd want to "show".

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:58 pm

SIGH !!!

Bonsai are living things and growth is constant.
A design will mature and after that you may have to start over from scratch.
This is why slow growing, and extremely mature conifers are so popular.

The gallery will reflect- change.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  coh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:47 pm

Well...

I was planning on posting some of my trees, but am now having second thoughts. My original impression/interpretation was that this was to be a personal gallery, where those individuals with lots of advanced trees could post them, and where those of us beginners with less developed material could also post what we're working on. My thinking - since I'm pretty new, I'd like to see what other beginners are working on (less developed, but hopefully somewhat past the "stick in a pot" stage). Sure I can go and search through old threads to look for so-and-so's developing trees, but the gallery would make it much easier. It's one of the major reasons I advocated creating a gallery forum.

I can go to any bonsai book or magazine (and many websites) to see advanced or "finished" trees.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:12 pm

coh wrote:Well...

I was planning on posting some of my trees, but am now having second thoughts. My original impression/interpretation was that this was to be a personal gallery, where those individuals with lots of advanced trees could post them, and where those of us beginners with less developed material could also post what we're working on. My thinking - since I'm pretty new, I'd like to see what other beginners are working on (less developed, but hopefully somewhat past the "stick in a pot" stage). Sure I can go and search through old threads to look for so-and-so's developing trees, but the gallery would make it much easier. It's one of the major reasons I advocated creating a gallery forum.

I can go to any bonsai book or magazine (and many websites) to see advanced or "finished" trees.


So what's keeping you? No, I didn't read the "sticky" but I don't see how where you are in bonsai would determine whether or not you should post pics of your trees. What's wrong with "Hi, my name is X and I've been working with bonsai for 4 years now. Here are a few of my trees..." ???

The trees posted in the gallery aren't there for discussion anyway.


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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  coh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:17 pm

I didn't read the "sticky" either (until Fiona posted it), but the tone in the messages posted by the moderators is definitely discouraging (in terms of posting trees that are less developed)...and probably a big part of the reason there's been so little participation overall.

I may go ahead and post some of mine anyway when I have the time to take and sort through photos...

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:23 pm



I just read the sticky too, and now I see what you mean. It's not very encouraging....

Fiona?

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  JudyB on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:57 pm

I certainly wouldn't dare to post any photos of my trees there, and they are not sticks in pots. The tone of the sticky, along with some comments on this thread about posting "unfinished" trees has deterred me, and probably anyone else who doesn't have masterpieces to show. Also the mention of the level of photography and display is daunting to some, me included. I understand how the more advanced here have all that down, and it's nice to see the galleries they put up. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate seeing them. But as coh said, it seems to be a pretty exclusive club.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Norma on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:03 pm

I've thought of posting a few bonsai in this gallery but stumbled on the term..."finished".

The level of photography may also daunt some forum members. Perhaps a "good informal" such as the shots many take of their trees at shows, could be acceptable or even art photography that is now popular, thanks to apps.

I would really like to see our members' bonsai but the gallery has set a standard that may be a bit high.

Kindly,
Norma

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Guest on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:26 pm

Hi Everybody

I feel a bit strange about the thought of posting photos in the gallery, as I know the tree will look diffrent next year.....never rally finished.

It will be diffrent for me, if my tree is in an exhibition, and photos is taken on the day, together with many other exhibitors trees.....photos from a event on a given date.

It is a bit sad suiseki is not invitet in the gallery, as here we can really talk of a finished image.

I prefer to show me trees in other kinds of topics.... when something is in progress, or done to the tree, as they never will be really finished...also do I like the conversations, questions and critique.

Bonsaigallery is not really my thing, my trees will never be ready. And the trees of interest will be seen in other topics.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:29 pm

I have to admit that if I'd read the sticky I'm not sure I would have posted....

And Yvonne's right. Trees change. What's wrong with a sequence of pics over time? Isn't that what it's about? Personally, I'd much rather go to Jun's gallery (for instance) and look at the progression of a certain tree rather than sifting through a zillion threads trying to find it.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  JimLewis on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:54 pm

I feel a bit strange about the thought of posting photos in the gallery, as I know the tree will look different next year.....never really finished.

Well, that's bonsai, isn't it? And that's photography, too, isn't it? That shouldn't stop you from posting a picture here today.

Photography takes a picture of a slice of time. Things can and will be different during a later slice. If the tree changes drastically, hit "Edit", zap the old pic and put in a new one.

As for some of the other comments, not every tree posted in the gallery is -- or may even become -- a masterpiece. We don't and won't dictate what you can post there (or anywhere, so long as it is decent and meets our AUP). There's a gallery or two that already have "in-progress" trees posted in them. I assume, as these trees mature, we'll see some new ones.

At the same time, I <--- just me, please note ---> don't see any benefit to posting pictures of trees you haven't quite done with yet. You don't get comments on the gallery -- helpful, or otherwise. To whom are you showing them, and why?

On photography and picture quality. If care -- and time -- is taken, anyone with any digital camera (except, perhaps, an older camera phone) can take clear, sharp, and well-set-up pictures. The pictures on my gallery were taken with a 10-year-old, then $200, digital. The name on the camera -- KODAK. Again, I <--- just me! ---> can't imagine that anyone would want to post "snapshots" on their gallery. But you do NOT need a $1,000 Nikon or Cannon to get decent, clear, sharp pictures.

You need a blank wall (or other background), a suitable platform for your tree, light (natural or otherwise) coming onto your tree from somewhere other than head on (so NOT flash), and a tripod or other firm support for the camera (a beanbag works great).

The tree needs to be trimmed, wired if needed, and the pot should be clean.

Period.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:56 pm

Russell Coker wrote:

And Yvonne's right. Trees change. What's wrong with a sequence of pics over time? Isn't that what it's about?

I thought nothing! Because that is just what I am doing in my gallery?! I was, and still am, under the impression that this was set up to show the progression of a Bonsai over time?! I am currently sorting out all the pictures of my old Ulmus, they span the 22 years period this little tree is under my care and they show perfectly the changes it went trough over all those years! I think that this way is interesting to see for the visitors and it will hopefully also shows them that even mediocre or difficult material can become a Bonsai! All it takes is some imagination, technique and a lot of patience! cheers Very Happy

So I hope that more will post their work here, so that more visitors are drown to this nice idea!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.


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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  JimLewis on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:06 pm

Actually, the second of our main galleries was established specifically for progressions. Here is Fiona's explanation of that gallery: http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t9745-what-the-bonsai-progressions-advanced-techniques-forum-is-for

How would you see the Gallery as being any different?

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:09 pm

It is certainly NOT for long progression sequences but I'd say things like a before and after is perfectly fine as would showing the same tree in its different seasonal colours/effects.


I just red the above for the first time, my fold, but I was under the impression that how I did it was the way it was supposed to be! My fault, but those this mean that I have to remove those progressive photo's? It was a lot off work, but rules are rules! Or will I move them to the progression section?

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  JimLewis on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:17 pm

I just read the above for the first time, my fault, but I was under the impression that how I did it was the way it was supposed to be! My fault, but those this mean that I have to remove those progressive photo's?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them there. No harm is or was done, and the Gallery Police are not looking for you.

As I said earlier, no one is going to edit whatever you post here in your gallery.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  fiona on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

This is precisely the sort of thread that makes me want to quit IBC altogether as this is just totally out of all proportion. The sticky is written in a bland manner to accommodate that we have a good number of different languages and has to be kept as simple as possible. The sticky also makes it clear that there are no "rules" so I am really quite hurt and disappointed that several people seem to be implying that a deterrent has been put in place - especially as my name is against it. I would have thought it is quite clear through repeated use of the phrase, that this is a personal space. Post what you want, it's really that simple; we only gave you some suggestions.

And most importantly of all, the Gallery was created [b]at the request of the members[/b] and was set up to accommodate the suggestions that were made as part of a consultation exercise. - not imposed as is being suggested. I think you may now be getting the gist of why I am so upset here at being blamed me for any faults - real or perceived - you see in it because all we did was set up something as asked.

I am not going to apologise for this rant as it is long overdue. It took me something like 70 hours to get the consultation exercise done and the changes made - and you can add to that the hours spent by other moderators in that process.

You'll forgive me for thinking, never again.

Fiona



Last edited by fiona on Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:49 pm

fiona wrote:I am now on the point of quitting this forum altogether as this is just totally out of all proportion. The sticky is written in a bland manner to accommodate that we have a good number of different languages and has to be kept as simple as possible. The sticky also makes it clear that there are no "rules" so I am really quite hurt and disappointed that several people seem to be implying that a deterrent has been put in place by big bad Fiona. Equally, it is quite clear through repeated use of the phrase, that this is a personal space. Post what you want, it's really that simple; we only gave you some suggestions.

And most importantly of all, the Gallery was created [b]at the request of the members[/b] and was set up to accommodate the suggestions that were made as part of a consultation exercise. - not imposed as is being suggested. I think you may now be getting the gist of why I am so upset here at being blamed me for any faults - real or perceived - you see in it because all we did was set up something as asked.

I am not going to apologise for this rant as it is long overdue. It took me something like 70 hours to get the consultation exercise done and the changes made - and you can add to that the hours spent by other moderators in that process.

You'll forgive me for thinking, never again.

Fiona


Dear Fiona,
I sure hope that I did not upset you, because that was or is never my intention! I just want to do the right thing here to make it all work! Because it deserves to be a sucses! And you did a great job in my eyes, honestly! So dont give in!

Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Please forgive me if I said anything offensive or accusatory. That certainly was not my intent.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Hans van Meer. on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:51 pm

JimLewis wrote:
I just read the above for the first time, my fault, but I was under the impression that how I did it was the way it was supposed to be! My fault, but those this mean that I have to remove those progressive photo's?

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave them there. No harm is or was done, and the Gallery Police are not looking for you.

As I said earlier, no one is going to edit whatever you post here in your gallery.

That's cool! Thanks for that clarification! I need to start reading the rules before I jump in next time! Embarassed
Cheers and have a nice weekend!
Hans van Meer.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  JudyB on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:52 pm

I'll be begging your pardon if you thought that I was criticizing you in any way regarding the gallery. I'm sorry if I insulted you unintentionally.

I just thought that this was a discussion about wanting more people to post galleries, and I was posting to give my reasonings behind not wishing to make one. Not that anyone is asking me personally, but I thought the thread was a discussion of sorts about why there are not more.

As I said, I do appreciate the galleries that are posted, and have looked thru all of them, some more than once for inspiration.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  coh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:02 pm

Fiona,

I can understand your frustration, and I appreciate the time and effort you and the other moderators put into creating the gallery forum. However...it is obvious that there is some confusion among the membership regarding what can/should be posted there. I think this is a great opportunity to clarify and revise the forum description, as only slight changes in the wording of the "sticky" would be required to remove the apparent contradiction (between "personal space, post anything" vs "really for more finished trees") that is making people reluctant to post there.

coh
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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  fiona on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:17 pm

The sticky has now been amended.

Please do give me your positive suggestions if you feel anything needs further clarification and/or addition and/or deletion.


I have made sure the reference to photography is clarified (it is, as was previously, a reference to how I had approached my own gallery) but you may feel it still could cause confusion.

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Re: time for more galleries please

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:37 pm



Has doomsday been averted? Can I crawl out of my fallout shelter now? Very Happy

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Re: time for more galleries please

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