New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

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New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:55 pm

I just picked up a Kiyohime a couple days ago and need helping with styling it. I was thinking of a simple informal upright broom with two main branches. I'll probably need to wire the low branch down a bit and also the second branch. The upper trunk leans back a little, do I need to straighten it?

My other question is what is causing the flaking of the bark at the trunk? Is this due the graft and would that ever heal/go away?





I am new to bonsai and to Japanese Maples so any help would be appreciated, thank you!








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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  drgonzo on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:37 am

Hi

I would think it's too late to style now in Boston as the tree will be entering senescence within a few months, so you'll have plenty of time to examine the bare branch structure over winter and think about what you might like to do. Some folks enjoy wiring their Japanese Maples in fall, this requires good protection over winter as the tree will not heal branches until spring. I believe Marcus told me Kiyo resents having freezing cold wire on it overwinter...so maybe wait till late spring for wiring.

The graft (if that is a graft) is atrocious..sorry to say. If the under-stock is such a blatant mismatch for the green to grey bark of Kiyohime. as this seems to be, I would consider it unsuitable for use as bonsai as that will never look correct.. No That won't get any better. An airlayer may be necessary. My Kiyo is already mature so I'm not sure if this is how the lower bark ages...I hope so...sheesh!

-Jay

And by the way, my signature below, was inspired by a Kiyohime Japanese Maple....the branches are chalk stick brittle.

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  Treedwarfer on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:40 am

I think that the base of the trunk is actually root. There appear to be callused scars where large awkward roots were pruned for whatever reason. On the other hand, it could be an air layer - the scars being where heavy branches were cut to make room for the layer, and the weird bark the result of being packed in sphagnum moss for too long. On the other, other hand, it could be a graft, but I can think of no understock for maple with bark like that.

Where did you find this?

As for training, wait. Kiyohime have a very particular growth habit: they hate to make a dominant trunk and insist on growing sideways - to the extent that if you lose the to, you'll never get it back again. So.... Keep it alive and well until spring, and when it's lost its leaves we can look at the structure and argue over what's best Wink

As for whether the bark on the trunk will ever match, doubtful. Unless you do something to make the bark on the upper trunk match that on the lower. What to do is the question, and knowing the origin of the tree might help. Never know, you might be on the verge of a major breakthrough new technique!

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  marcus watts on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:12 am

Hi,

As they age the trunk bark will lose the new smooth green look - but it is not a quick thing. This picture is the base of my Kyohime - arrived in the UK from Japan as an already mature 'semi specimen' tree in 1982 so it is a tree of at least 70 years old.....maybe even 80+ now



The problem is the lower bit will always age as well, so they will never match up left alone. you can use a fine grade sand paper to scratch the bark surface but I would practice on the back first ! Very Happy - again though it will probably take at least 5 years to see any real results.

Very brittle tree - dont make any quick or heavy handed bends and yes, I did mention to Jay that frozen wire can often mark the branches and even create a spiraling dead line, so I'd sit and be patient until spring with this one. (In time you will probably re-layer the top, but for now you can learn loads from the tree - they are not quite like other palmatums in the techniques used)

cheers Marcus

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:36 pm

I got the tree from a garden nursery. It's in a 5 gallon container, has about a 1.5 inch trunk and is 12 inches tall.

Based on recommendations here , I'll leave it alone until spring. I'll follow up with pictures of the tree once the leaves fall off.

Thanks everyone!





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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:10 pm

How about this nebari? I saw it today at a garden nursery. It's a "Harriet Waldman" cultivar.

Acer palmatum ‘Harriet Waldman’ - This is a very interesting Japanese Maple that has variegated leaves and striking pink new growth in mid summer. It’s believed to be a seedling of A. palm. ‘Oridono Nishiki’ that was found by Phil Waldman of Roslyn Nursery and named for his wife.


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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  drgonzo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:02 am

I have Oridono Nishiki and its just about my favorite Maple. If this is a seedling go for it! They are beautiful trees.


BTW what nursery are you visiting up there that has all these maples?
-Jay

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:33 pm

I picked up the tree today. It's in 3 gallon container, has a 1.5 inch trunk, the nebari spreads close to 4 inches, and it's about 30 inches tall. How well do these guys bud back? The internodes are fairly long so hopefully I can get that shorter.

It's from mom and pops garden nursery here in Massachusetts. They have the best selection of Japanese Maples from the garden nurseries I've visited. There's 2 garden nurseries here that strictly specializes in Japanese Maples but I haven't had a chance to visit them yet.



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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  drgonzo on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Yeah, thats the pink striped bark...Very cool, though this one doesn't seem to display the degree of variegation I have seen with my Oridono Nishiki even this late in the season mine is highly variegated.

I have found it to be very willing to back bud and is generally very vigorous, hence the propensity to throw long internodes, but when pinched back the second flush is manageable. Think a bit on the bigger side when styling I think.

-Jay

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:37 am

drgonzo wrote:Yeah, thats the pink striped bark...Very cool, though this one doesn't seem to display the degree of variegation I have seen with my Oridono Nishiki even this late in the season mine is highly variegated.

I have found it to be very willing to back bud and is generally very vigorous, hence the propensity to throw long internodes, but when pinched back the second flush is manageable. Think a bit on the bigger side when styling I think.

-Jay

Good info Jay. Do you have any pictures of your tree? I'm interested to see what yours looks like. Thanks!

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  drgonzo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:48 am

I put one up on this thread. The tree has a long way to go but it's an enjoyable journey with such a colorful friend as this.
-Jay
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t10825-variegated-foliage-for-bonsai

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:46 pm

drgonzo wrote:I put one up on this thread. The tree has a long way to go but it's an enjoyable journey with such a colorful friend as this.
-Jay
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t10825-variegated-foliage-for-bonsai

Can you tell me the height and trunk size of your tree so I have a reference? Thanks!!

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  drgonzo on Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:22 pm

Height is about 24 inches, trunk at nebari is about 3 inches.

Just tightened the guy wires again yesterday, it's amazing how far you can bend thick branches with Maples if you just do it a bit at a time.
-Jay

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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

Post  AboveBeyond on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:55 pm

I took some pictures of the Oridono Nishiki now that the leaves have fallen. I like view 1 or 2 because it gives the best angle of the nebari and I like the trunk movement. I'm leaning towards view 2. There are two large branches and they would need to go. There's smaller branches all over the tree so it should be a problem finding the ones to use for the branch structure. At what point should I chop the top? I'm thinking before the bar branches at the top. Those two branches are two thick to be at the apex.

Let me know what you all think!

View 1


View 2


View 3


View 4









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Re: New Kiyohime Maple Styling - Help Needed

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