Where to purchase Fertilizer?

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Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  remist17 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:43 pm

I read the debates about organic and inorganic fertilizer. I do not have a opinion nor care which to use. My main issue is what and where to secure the correct bonsai fertilizer. I am currently using miracle grow for all the plants I have.
Maples, elms, junipers and privet.
My first question is there something I can use for all the trees I have? If not what is the best for junipers and deciduous trees?
My second question is where do you purchase said fertilizer? I see a lot of Orchid sites that have Urea free items but I am not sure how each business is. I like to order from known places.

Thanks for your time
Tim

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:48 pm

You can over think this, as some others wiil point out, fertilizer is fertilizer, the chemical have to be broken down in the soil before use and organic fertilizers really take longer to act because they have to be broken down more,

I use a balanced (16-16-16 for example) time release such as Osmocote with minors.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Poink88 on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:13 pm

I primarily use Miracle Gro all purpose to feed all my trees and don't see a reason to change. I also use slow release for acid loving plants (azaleas, pine, etc.). I buy mine in bulk from Costco...probably several years supply Very Happy

Fertilizer can be complicated, simple, or anywhere in between...you choose what makes you and your trees happy. Wink

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:24 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote: the chemical have to be broken down in the soil before use

Some Chemical fertilizers are formulated so that this is unnecessary and they feed instantly. I use the same fertilizer that the National Bonsai & Penjing Museum uses and thats Dyna grow. It's an excellent product.

It can be ordered online from numerous sources.
-Jay

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  AboveBeyond on Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:41 pm

drgonzo wrote:
Billy M. Rhodes wrote: the chemical have to be broken down in the soil before use

Some Chemical fertilizers are formulated so that this is unnecessary and they feed instantly. I use the same fertilizer that the National Bonsai & Penjing Museum uses and thats Dyna grow. It's an excellent product.

It can be ordered online from numerous sources.
-Jay

Which formula do you use? The 7-7-7?

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:26 pm

AboveBeyond wrote:
Which formula do you use? The 7-7-7?

Yes, and Jack told me he uses the 7-9-5. I use both. I also like their 0-0-3 pro teKt.
-Jay

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Tim Priest on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:58 pm

I use Dyna Grow with HB 101 and Seaweed mixed in every 4-7 days and BioGold Japanese fertilizer as a time release. As far as I know only Dallas Bonsai caries BioGold (This is all Ryan Neil uses) HB 101 is a wonder drug.... and Dyna Grow and seaweed can be found pretty much at any garden center

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  coh on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Tim Priest wrote:I use Dyna Grow with HB 101 and Seaweed mixed in every 4-7 days and BioGold Japanese fertilizer as a time release. As far as I know only Dallas Bonsai caries BioGold (This is all Ryan Neil uses) HB 101 is a wonder drug.... and Dyna Grow and seaweed can be found pretty much at any garden center
Interesting, that has not been my experience! I don't think I've ever seen dyna-gro in a regular garden center - only in hydroponic shops, bonsai shops, orchid shops. But it can be easily ordered on line from a number of places.

I'm also curious as to what about HB101 makes it a "wonder drug"? Note I'm not attacking you, but am genuinely interested.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:57 pm

www.bonsaimonk.com has Dyna Gro on sale.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  peter keane on Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:43 pm

I get mine here

http://colinlewisbonsai.com/products.html

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  JimLewis on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:48 pm

I think I'd have to class HB101 as yet another "magic elixir." It is a product from Japan, which, of course gives it a certain cachet.

It appears to contain nothing that will harm plants (though the website says it contains a substance called "pinen" for which I can find no reference, anywhere, and another that is a "saponin-like" substance. Saponins are, according to my dictionary, "Any of various plant glucosides that form soapy lathers when mixed and agitated with water; used in detergents and foaming agents and emulsifiers" which doesn't seem very plant friendly, but again may not hurt.

The HB101 website says it is "Made from the essences of cedars, pines, Japanese cypress, and plantains, HB-101 works by itself as a nutrient for plants. Essentially it is to plants what a body fluid to animals. Body fluid contains all the nutrients that animals need, and is an essential substance for building and maintaining cells, immune systems, the overall anatomy, etc " (emphasis added) which seems pretty nonsensical to me.

In places they call it a "nutrient" and a "vitalizer." From the "nutrient" standpoint, I find no reference to any NPK content, though it undoubtedly has some, considering its ingredients -- or essences. As for "vitalizer" . . .

I find no recognizable science there.

But, as I said, since I've probably pissed off a whole host of people here, I doubt it is dangerous. Another Superthrive, about which my feelings are WELL known.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  coh on Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:58 pm

Certainly has the sound of a snake oil, and interesting that the person who called it a "wonder drug" hasn't replied to my request for additional explanation. Tim Priest, what can you add? What makes HB 101 a "wonder drug" in your eyes?

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  wabashene on Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:08 pm

I do believe it was Young Walter Pall who, in response to a question about what type of fertilizer he uses for his 100's of top class trees, responded,

"Whatever is on sale cheap at the local garden centre!"

I tend to agree whilst at the same time being sensitive to those trees that may require a slightly more acid environment by adding a shot of Miracid or similar to the solution for pines and acers.

TimR

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Tim Priest on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:14 am

Hey Chris,
It is a Japanese organic supplement. The Japanese swear by it. You only use 5-50 drops per gallon. It's made from extracts of cedars, cypress, pine trees and plantains. Works great on helping sick trees and to keep all your trees healthy. I also grow wheatgrass for wheatgrass juicing and only 10 drops in a gallon of water has doubled my yields.
Tim

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Tim Priest on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:15 am

My Sensei in Japan says to use HB 101 so I use it.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:51 am

Unfortunately without a label with specifically listed contents, its impossible to determine efficacy objectively.

-Jay


Last edited by drgonzo on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  coh on Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:53 am

Tim,

Thanks for your response!

Have you done any experiments comparing groups of trees with/without use of HB 101? Do you use it on all species?

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:11 am

Another issue we run into with products like HB 101 is the botanical fact that plants can only absorb nutrients in the form of simple dissolved ions. For instance, a large organic molecule like alpha or beta pinene, C10H16, (which I believe is what they meant as it is a by product of refined pine resin that can be found in turpentine) would be too large to be absorbed through the cell walls of the root tissue. I don't see how it could be effective for plant growth if it does not enter the plant tissue itself.

I have run into other plant products stating they contain plant amino acids, again these molecules, as such, can not be absorbed by plants as they are simply too large.

-Jay

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Tim Priest on Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:09 am

The only experiment I have done was with the Wheatgrass because with that you will see results in 2 weeks and with dramatic changes. I use 10 drops per gallon and only use it once when I water the soil before planting the seeds. I have always used 1 oz of seaweed and 1 oz of fish emulsion for that initial watering. When I introduced the HB101 it increased yield by 2 fold and the wheatgrass blades are thicker and greener. A lot of bonsai people swear by it. Like I said the Japanese love it. Also Brussel Martin and Jim Doyle use it. Ivan Watters the curator of the Chicago Botanic Garden which has one of the top 3 collections in the country, also swears by it and uses it on the entire collection. Not sure but I also believe it is used on the National Arboretums trees. I use it every time I fertilize, which is once a week.
Tim



coh wrote:Tim,

Thanks for your response!

Have you done any experiments comparing groups of trees with/without use of HB 101? Do you use it on all species?

Tim Priest
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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  marcus watts on Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:17 am

Hi,

If your tree collection is young, developing and in need of 5-10 years growth I would use anything from the garden center. When the trees need to be slowed down but kept in perfect tip top health it is time to use more specific products.

wonder potion recipe 101...........if it gives people confidence then it is a good thing, if it is needed to constantly perk up sick or weak trees the original care (and fertilizing) needs looking at more closely as generally the trees shouldn't get weak in the first place. I certainly wouldn't discount it as rubbish but must admit I haven't felt the need to buy any. I manufacture a high grade organic in the factory for myself and friends but have supplemented this year with hydroponic fertilizers as the temps have been low. Normally these things are bought when you have a problem tree and hunt for a way to fix it but I don't know anyone who has seen improvement in their trees from before to after if the trees were properly fed already.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  coh on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:48 pm

I won't completely discount it either. Who knows, perhaps some of the components act as root stimulants even if they cannot be absorbed...or perhaps they break down into other components that are active in some way. I would, however, like to see more direct evidence that it works on potted trees. The wheatgrass example is a little different - you're starting a plant from seed and watering with HB101 once at the start - so it may very well act in some way on the seed or young plant, but not on a mature root system. The other thing is, if you've been using it on your trees all along, you don't really know if its having a positive effect, regardless of who told you to use it...

In my case, I doubt the problems I'm having with some trees are due to lack of HB101, and I'd rather figure out and fix what I'm doing wrong than throw another variable into the mix. But I am willing to listen to other testimonials, so if anyone else is using it, please let us know.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:18 pm

Plant science and nutrition is still an evolving field of study, for instance the role of Potassium in plant culture is still not clearly understood. I would always be suspicious of any product that doesn't clearly list it's ingredients, but anecdotal evidence can be quite convincing.

Tim.
if by National Arboretum, you mean National Bonsai & Penjing Museum they use Dyna grow. Jack seemed to be very happy with the product and uses it on his personal collection at home as well. I'm not sure if he supplements with HB 101.

If you Mean Bill V. We'd have to have him pop in and tell us.

Best
-Jay
PS where can this be bought? I might want to give it a go if it's not too pricey.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  marcus watts on Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:30 pm

dallas bonsai sell it

If you do a general google search it turns up lots of disscussion and the common theme is weak trees recover but the flip side often repeated is why let the tree decline in the first place? potentially a product aimed at the unsure and the under confident maybe - but with good properties at a price by all accounts it could help save a tree if you are struggling with a particular species. if $30 saves a tree it is money well spent I guess.

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:15 pm

The mantra once again - SIGH !!




"We grow Bonsai for beauty, and not produce, or size"





So health is the only important situation. Doesn't take a fancy fertilizer to do that.

By the way, isn't it weaker doses into moist soil, more frequently,is more effective ?

I have used fertilizers at 1/3 strength for years, and in full sun,the N part tends to be more important for good green leaves.
My fertilizer probably looks like 5-5-5 with some trace elements.
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:59 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:The mantra once again - SIGH !!




"We grow Bonsai for beauty, and not produce, or size"




.
Later.
Khaimraj


Produce you said my LLB? hehehehe? yummy sweet tamarind,,,here you need phosphorous reach fertilizer: also good for root development and if there are fruits there must be good flowers first, so its good also for flowering bonsai




regular fertilizer can't achieve this much.





For good green growth a tree would need fertilizer reach in nitrogen, here organic fertizer is more advisable:





And potassium builds strong and happy plants...bonsai or not.







...So it really depends on your bonsai. but a balance fertilizer is the safest way to go.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Where to purchase Fertilizer?

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