LOTR . . . . . . .

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Re: LOTR . . . . . . .

Post  bumblebee on Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:07 pm

Does anybody know if this planting is still intact? I know at one point its creator had to rework it a little.

Libby

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Re: LOTR . . . . . . .

Post  JimLewis on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:26 pm

There's probably some way you can ask on his blog.

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Post  Smithy on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:33 pm

bumblebee wrote:Does anybody know if this planting is still intact? I know at one point its creator had to rework it a little.

Libby

The tree died over the winter

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Post  Sam Ogranaja on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:45 pm

Smithy wrote:
bumblebee wrote:Does anybody know if this planting is still intact? I know at one point its creator had to rework it a little.

Libby

The tree died over the winter

That really stinks.

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Post  bumblebee on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:54 pm

That is so sad....that tree had real personality.

Libby

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LOTR

Post  bonsaisr on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:11 pm

CraftyTanuki wrote:Sa(i)kei?
Saikei is not a traditional Japanese concept. Linguistically, penjing and bonsai mean about the same thing, planting in a tray. Westerners tend to associate penjing with one particular style, land-and-water penjing, popularized by Mr. Zhao.
Toshio Kawamoto coined the term saikei about 40 years ago. Following WWII, it was very hard for Japanese growers to obtain good bonsai material. Mr. Kawamoto proposed taking immature trees and creating landscapes with them, and then using them for individual bonsai when they got old enough. The idea took off, but after going to the trouble of creating a saikei, growers usually let them alone as long as possible. If I recall, saikei literally means something like living landscape. So trayscape is a good rendition.
Iris

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Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:41 pm

I have a book Bonsai-Saikei The Japanese Miniature Trees, Gardens, and Landscapes by Toshio Kawamoto and Joesph Y. Kurlhara #386 of 500 published in 1963.
The illustrations (mostly drawings) show what we would call forest plantings. I don't see little mud men, horses, buildings, etc.

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Re: LOTR . . . . . . .

Post  Attila Soos on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:12 pm

A few years ago, when master Kimura was in town, we asked him about his thoughts on Saikei. He said that Saikei in Japan, has all but disappeared in the last decade or so. Aside from rare occasions, nobody practices it anymore. He also expressed his regret on this trend (and the fact that everybody has his focus on winning the prestigious awards, thus choosing only the well-trodden path), and said that bonsai would only benefit from a diverse range of styles and practices. But that's not the case in Japan right now.

So, this comes from one of the top bonsai authorities in Japan. In light of this, I imagine that Mr. Kimura would encourage such unorthodox work, as the above trayscape.

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Re: LOTR . . . . . . .

Post  Attila Soos on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:18 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I have a book Bonsai-Saikei The Japanese Miniature Trees, Gardens, and Landscapes by Toshio Kawamoto and Joesph Y. Kurlhara #386 of 500 published in 1963.
The illustrations (mostly drawings) show what we would call forest plantings. I don't see little mud men, horses, buildings, etc.

I have the book as well. But forest planting is not equvalent with saikei. Forest planting is part of traditional bonsai. Saikei allows the use of rocks, figurines and miniature buildings/structures as well. It is true, however, that the use of miniatures are kept at minimum, compared with Penjing. This is a matter of debate, between the "bonsai purists" (who want no part of any miniatures), and those who advocate more freedom in this regard.


Last edited by Attila Soos on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: LOTR . . . . . . .

Post  Orion on Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:24 pm

Attila Soos wrote:A few years ago, when master Kimura was in town, we asked him about his thoughts on Saikei. He said that Saikei in Japan, has all but disappeared in the last decade or so. Aside from rare occasions, nobody practices it anymore. He also expressed his regret on this trend (and the fact that everybody has his focus on winning the prestigious awards, thus choosing only the well-trodden path), and said that bonsai would only benefit from a diverse range of styles and practices. But that's not the case in Japan right now.

So, this comes from one of the top bonsai authorities in Japan. In light of this, I imagine that Mr. Kimura would encourage such unorthodox work, as the above trayscape.

Thanks for that post Attila, it says a lot.

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