What the heck do I do with this?

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What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Curtis on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:29 pm

Ok so I tried an airlayer from this Siberian crab a couple of months ago. Well this was the result. Now what do I do?? Should I strip a tiny bit of the bark from the top,scrape and try again? Its getting late in the season Confused Sorry no time to upright the pic.


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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  marcus watts on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:18 pm

haha, that is sods law..............

i'd say it is too late for the top to root properly, but if you dont moss it and wrap it up again the top will die anyway.

Maybe protect from frost for the winter - but thinking about it now the roots have formed there you may not get others just above - where they are they offer no use though, so either rub them off or leave it and let us all know what happens bynext spring

cheers Marcus

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Curtis on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:34 pm

Thanks Marcus, I appreciate the reply. Unfortunately I couldn't wait and I ended up doing exactly as I said. I cut about 2mm of bark off the top, packed and re-wrapped it putting hormone around it of course. I guess best case scenario would be that it does root on the top, allowing me to cut it off either this year or in the spring and also having the roots at the bottom for spring as well. Giving me 2 trees for spring thumbs up Worst case would be that the whole branch dies Crying or Very sad I planted this tree over 3 years ago from seed and my plan is to make this shohin. I have kept it in small pots, only repotting it once last year. The nodes are so close together. The Malus Baccata is soooo hardy that I might get lucky with this one. Thanks again.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  0soyoung on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:59 am

Curtis wrote:Ok so I tried an airlayer from this Siberian crab a couple of months ago. Well this was the result. Now what do I do?? Should I strip a tiny bit of the bark from the top,scrape and try again? Its getting late in the season Confused Sorry no time to upright the pic.


Let me ask two questions.

First, is there foliage above (to the left of) the girdle? I know it is a stupid question, but none is shown in your photo.

Second, did you keep those 'roots'? It is very unlikely (dare I say impossible) that they really are roots, but rather are leaf/branch sprouts that are white (etoliated) because they were inside the bag of sphagnum, not exposed to light. If you kept them and didn't close them in the sphagnumb again, they should begin looking like branches, bud, and leaf out.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Curtis on Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:20 am

"First, is there foliage above (to the left of) the girdle? I know it is a stupid question, but none is shown in your photo." No, there is foliage on the tree above the airlayer but higher up and not in the picture. What you are seeing is on a branch that comes off before the air layer.

"Second, did you keep those 'roots'? It is very unlikely (dare I say impossible) that they really are roots, but rather are leaf/branch sprouts that are white (etoliated) because they were inside the bag of sphagnum, not exposed to light. If you kept them and didn't close them in the sphagnum again, they should begin looking like branches, bud, and leaf out." No these are roots. And that would not happen anyways. Ive never seen roots turn into branches. I could be wrong if anybody wants to chime in.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  0soyoung on Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:49 am

Curtis wrote:No these are roots. And that would not happen anyways. Ive never seen roots turn into branches. I could be wrong if anybody wants to chime in.

Well the curious thing here is that plants are programmed for which way is up. IIRC, this is established once the ovule has divided into two cells - one end is forever top and the other forever down. Auxin is produced by foliage. Auxin flow is polar, always from top to bottom, from foliage to roots, and occurs in the phloem. Auxin stimulates the formation of roots and is 'consumed' by roots. The girdle removes the phloem and cambium and interrupts the auxin flow path - auxin from the foliage piles up at the top of the girdle and stimulates roots to form there. When you made the girdle, the auxin flow below it suddenly plummeted and released adventitious buds (a.k.a. back budded), just like you had pruned the branch at the bottom of the girdle.

I don't see any callus formation yet, which suggests roots won't be appearing for a while yet. Regardless, if you wrap it up and keep it damp like Marcus says, you may still get a successful air-layer, even if it isn't this season. If roots don't appear soon, you can leave it all in place, even after the leaves fall - the process will resume next spring once the tree has leafed out again. I have a few trees that started life as second season air layers that didn't do anything but set callus in the first season.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Xavier de Lapeyre on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:29 am

Curtis wrote:No these are roots. And that would not happen anyways. Ive never seen roots turn into branches. I could be wrong if anybody wants to chime in.

I cant say for all species, but some ficus and privets roots do turn into trunks and sprout new leaves/branches if exposed to air.




I also get it sometimes on my Clerodendrum's nebari. Old exposed roots sometimes pull out suckers.
But my climate might have something to do with it to some extend too.

you could let the roots on this one grow more, and get a strangled banyan style.
My guess it that is you cut at the base it will sprout new leaves and you could get a mixed style - broom strangled banyan style.. if the tree can make it Smile

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Poink88 on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:45 pm

I agree w/ Osoyoung...those could be branches that look like roots being covered. I have lots of those sucker sprouts on my collected malus and being underground, they never formed leaves until they reached the surface or in my case exposed after excavation.

Roots can and will grow branches...my ficus and malus cuttings did.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Curtis on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:22 pm

Well I can only hope that the top takes. The bottom where the roots are is not that important to me. I will be cutting it off just below that anyways. Whether it be this year or next. To be honest, the layer is not all that important because it was going to be chopped anyways but I thought I would try and get something out of it.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  0soyoung on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:47 pm

Curtis wrote:... The bottom where the roots are is not that important to me. I will be cutting it off just below that anyways. Whether it be this year or next.

So, since you are convinced those are roots, wouldn't it make sense to place another layer on the same branch above the one you've got going? Then you can get roots on one end or the other.

I think you just need to make sure there is some foliage between the two girdles.

Ought to be interesting ...

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

Post  Curtis on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:50 pm

Well because I thought I read somewhere that you can only do one layer on the same branch. Is this true. It seems that I am horrible at taking airlayers. There is always something that goes wrong.

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Re: What the heck do I do with this?

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