Malus Halliana complete turnover

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Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:32 pm

Hello,

it is my first post ever in here. I am from Belgian, 34 and 'busy' with bonsai since i was about 19. Unfortunately i had no good opportunities to 'seriously' get into practising the hobby up until i moved house (leave the den Wink when i was about 27. Still I had no garden, but was able to keep some of my early bonsai attempts and nurse them in the terraced small backyard. Finally 2008 arrived, and me and my girlfriend bought a modest house with a garden. Here we are, thats for the introduction.

Now, 2 weeks ago i went for a salehunt at the bonsaicenterginkgo in Belgium (famous all over europe, because of the Ginkgo Awards, no longer held unfortunately. That was the event before the Noelanders trophy).
There it was, a Malus Halliana, about 8 or 9cm at the base, offpriced.
Unfortunately when i got home, i noticed halfway up the trunk (above the fork) there were several small squares cut around the trunk, about 1 to 2 cm wide each. It appears someone tried marcotting that part some years ago. It was horrible when you closely inspected it. Total waist, the cuts still visible, cambium regenerated but still awful sight. Why did i not notice it? I was blinded i guess, and the foliage covered it all up.

Anyway, 2 weeks after bringing it home, i went for it... 2 times, first the same day i brought it home...shortened it... and today i cut off the entire trunk above the split (where that old marcot attempt was).

I had to do something then, so i went for my mini dremel powertool and hollowed the trunk. Next year i'll hollow it out some more, when shoots are growing, and i am sure the tree is healthy enough.

I am hesitating about the future style/form, what do you all think? In my humble opinion, the picture where it 'leans'/hangs appeals to me.

Greetings















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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:51 pm

I am hesitating about the future style/form, what do you all think? In my humble opinion, the picture where it 'leans'/hangs appeals to me.

Sorry, not me. I prefer it upright, or at least more upright than that. It is a nice tree. I urge you to not do much more to it for a while. Just study it.

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  marcus watts on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:52 pm

hi, and nice story.

Well done for reducing the tree - much better and older design.

I like the leaning picture too, one little bit looks wrong though - there are now two quite equal thick apex branches competing with each other - i like the one on the right more, it has more character but i would remove the one on the left.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  John Quinn on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:55 pm

Welcome to the IBC! Looks like a good direction.

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:32 pm

marcus watts wrote:hi, and nice story.

Well done for reducing the tree - much better and older design.

I like the leaning picture too, one little bit looks wrong though - there are now two quite equal thick apex branches competing with each other - i like the one on the right more, it has more character but i would remove the one on the left.

cheers Marcus

thanks. And yep, i didnt want to bore you all by saying the obvious, that offcourse some cut off branches need more work. I want it to 'rest' now, and recover. I'll just be on the lookout for possible new buds on the chopped down branches, or not. I just wanted to hear opinions about more upright, or the leaning form. That is my main concern right now.

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:41 pm

JimLewis wrote:
I am hesitating about the future style/form, what do you all think? In my humble opinion, the picture where it 'leans'/hangs appeals to me.

Sorry, not me. I prefer it upright, or at least more upright than that. It is a nice tree. I urge you to not do much more to it for a while. Just study it.

thanks for the reply, and yes that is the plan..no more work to be done this year, exept maybe use some wound seal etc.. and give it a good winters protection

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  marcus watts on Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:08 pm

yves71277 wrote:
marcus watts wrote:hi, and nice story.

Well done for reducing the tree - much better and older design.

I like the leaning picture too, one little bit looks wrong though - there are now two quite equal thick apex branches competing with each other - i like the one on the right more, it has more character but i would remove the one on the left.

cheers Marcus

thanks. And yep, i didnt want to bore you all by saying the obvious, that offcourse some cut off branches need more work. I want it to 'rest' now, and recover. I'll just be on the lookout for possible new buds on the chopped down branches, or not. I just wanted to hear opinions about more upright, or the leaning form. That is my main concern right now.

in all honesty it makes no difference at this stage what so ever as the new branches will fit either design when (if) they grow from new buds. The only problem leaving work to do on the initial pruning is this: - the tree now starts using energy to repair the damage and form new callous and buds - you leave 2 or more areas unfinished and the tree has to direct energy to all these areas, then you cut off the bits that were never needed anyway, so you end up making the tree weaker again not stronger.

I think the most important part of developing new or young material is to be decisive - pick the design, prune/bend to it and then let the tree recover and respond. It takes twice as long if you keep twice as many branches as you need.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:54 am

marcus watts wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
marcus watts wrote:hi, and nice story.

Well done for reducing the tree - much better and older design.

I like the leaning picture too, one little bit looks wrong though - there are now two quite equal thick apex branches competing with each other - i like the one on the right more, it has more character but i would remove the one on the left.

cheers Marcus

thanks. And yep, i didnt want to bore you all by saying the obvious, that offcourse some cut off branches need more work. I want it to 'rest' now, and recover. I'll just be on the lookout for possible new buds on the chopped down branches, or not. I just wanted to hear opinions about more upright, or the leaning form. That is my main concern right now.

in all honesty it makes no difference at this stage what so ever as the new branches will fit either design when (if) they grow from new buds. The only problem leaving work to do on the initial pruning is this: - the tree now starts using energy to repair the damage and form new callous and buds - you leave 2 or more areas unfinished and the tree has to direct energy to all these areas, then you cut off the bits that were never needed anyway, so you end up making the tree weaker again not stronger.

I think the most important part of developing new or young material is to be decisive - pick the design, prune/bend to it and then let the tree recover and respond. It takes twice as long if you keep twice as many branches as you need.

cheers Marcus

Thank you Marcus for you reply and appreciated advice. Its true offcourse. But I should have informed you better with those pictures. One of those 2 branches is a dead one, the right one (highest one with no leaf on top). Its dead almost up to the trunk, only a tiny shoot left, clearly seen in the last 'leaning' picture. The other one i didnt just wanna chop it down yet, it can be useful when new shoots that start from it, and then I could finally pick the design. Maybe those shoots would make a good ramified branch in the upright form.. So then i could better decide which shape to choose as definite design. It would be a shame to just chop it off entirely and only be left with the leaning option no? so its not that i decided yet that i want to go for the leaning design.

I can live with 1 or 2 years more to pick the definite design, it has come a long way allready. If i give it 1 or 2 more years, that is time enough for the tree to direct its energy where it wants. It can only direct it to what i left it with for new, i thought that was allready a big step forward.

The thing i am hesitating about, is whether other bonsai people 'esthetically' like the upright style better, or the leaning style. Since this is my first malus and maybe i was not so sure about a leaning shape for a Malus.

But offcourse any reply is welcome

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  my nellie on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:17 am

yves71277 wrote:... ...The thing i am hesitating about, is whether other bonsai people 'esthetically' like the upright style better, or the leaning style.... ...
Hello, Yves! I do like this tree very much!
I consider myself to be among the beginner bonsai people. That said, my suggestion for your malus is the same as the previous one of Jim. Leaning but not so much, more upright.
And now my question : What do you believe about the timing of carving the trunk? Do you consider it was appropriate/safe or have you taken a risk? (I'm a beginner I've told you....)

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:26 am

my nellie wrote:
yves71277 wrote:... ...The thing i am hesitating about, is whether other bonsai people 'esthetically' like the upright style better, or the leaning style.... ...
Hello, Yves! I do like this tree very much!
I consider myself to be among the beginner bonsai people. That said, my suggestion for your malus is the same as the previous one of Jim. Leaning but not so much, more upright.
And now my question : What do you believe about the timing of carving the trunk? Do you consider it was appropriate/safe or have you taken a risk? (I'm a beginner I've told you....)

Hello there, and thanks for your reply. Yes ok, its clear now i will wait 1 or 2 years to pick the definite design. depending on 1 or 2years regrowth, i'll then choose which i personally like most.

I live in belgium, summer continues here to the end of september. I've taken a calculated risk, in that way that i will have to make sure that i give it a better winter protection than my other trees because the callus will not have form entirely, only slightly. I dont want the trunk/bark around the carving edges to die back much.

I think there is more risk in the tree wanting to sprout new shoots now as a result of chopping and cutting it down. The (possible) new shoots will not have hardened as much as they would have done if I pruned it 1 or 2 months earlier.

but again, a good winters protection will solve all of this. And not feed the tree too much now (not too high N) too late in the year.

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  my nellie on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:41 am

I see.
Thank you for your reply.

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Malus halliana

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:59 am

For those in the US who are not familiar with the term, marcot means air-layer.
Iris

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:43 pm

[quote="yves71277] I think there is more risk in the tree wanting to sprout new shoots now as a result of chopping and cutting it down. The (possible) new shoots will not have hardened as much as they would have done if I pruned it 1 or 2 months earlier.[/quote]

To update you all.... as I expected, the tree did hurry to make new buds, 14 so far, of which several have allready started sprouting... This is great, there are a few buds at places i was hoping for. I'll ensure the tree gets a good winters protection and will be off for a good start next year then. I'll decide in may or june if i want it upright or slanting/leaning.

cheers

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Curtis on Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:54 pm

My opinion is(like butts of course), I think you made a big mistake with this tree. Like I said, only my opinion.

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Sheila on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:23 pm

I like the trunk of your tree very much and my preference would be towards upright.
Sheila

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:41 am

Curtis wrote:My opinion is(like butts of course), I think you made a big mistake with this tree. Like I said, only my opinion.

tell us, share us your thoughts (maybe you wanted me to ask, or you wanted simply to provoque?)... as we all know, there's no point in critisizing (that way!) if you dont even care about explaining your 'personal opinion'? If your opinion is just about the esthetics and not so much technical, well...saying i made a big mistake, thats not so nice is it? Wink You could have done what everybody has done, and that is just give us a friendly reply as to what you prefer, slanting/leaning or upright?

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Re: Malus Halliana complete turnover

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